D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Scott Christian]

...in reaction to me saying that I wouldn't want to play with a GM who thought me making up a village and a reskinning ki into a primal power source was too much intrusion on their world.

Your words tell me that you, personally, are a DM here that has said something remotely close to, slightly, a little, a microscopic cells worth, and even an atoms worth of words that implied that you thought player worldbuilding isn't how the game is supposed to be played. It is possible you don't feel this way, but I wouldn't say my interpretation is out of left field based on your quoted statement.

All the way in left field, past the parking lot, over into north Wrigleyville, over Lake Michigan, and into Canada.

I responded to someone saying a "minute" change to the DM's world. There is not a DM here that does not accept some lore being written by the players. There is not a DM here that doesn't compromise and try to help their players find a balance between the world that is already created and what the player wants. There is not a DM here that does not want their players t create a background, which not matter how it is written, will entail some lore from the world that they created.

I said it earlier. In D&D, I welcome anything. But in a curated setting where people have spent years worth of work creating, adding a, for example, new race, might be too much. Hence, the DM can say no, and that should be accepted - not argued with.

As for your specific example:
"If someone finds that minute, generic amount of world building too much and impermissible because I'm just a player..."

That is what I read. Minute and generic. And I stated no DM here would say no to this. Build a small village. Sure. Reskin ki. Go for it. Make them an orc. Some DM's might say no.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Generally players roll up something else.

It's mostly an online arguement.

Might be a generational thing. Younger people don't like the word no, parents used to say "because I said so" and if you pushed it the strap was an option.

So got used to the word no.

Right, because lightly pressing for the things we want instead of falling in line is a sign that my parents failed to raise me properly. Course, I got told no a lot by my parents. Whipped a lot too, but I'm younger than 50 so that must mean they didn't do a good job and that I'm entitled.

Love how this conversation is about people's preferences, and not criticizing people who think differently than you.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right, because lightly pressing for the things we want instead of falling in line is a sign that my parents failed to raise me properly. Course, I got told no a lot by my parents. Whipped a lot too, but I'm younger than 50 so that must mean they didn't do a good job and that I'm entitled.

Love how this conversation is about people's preferences, and not criticizing people who think differently than you.

Didn't say anything of the sort.

If I see a DM advertising a game with limitations I read what they are and them sign up or not.

It's basic courtesy.

One advertised a game recently expressed interest, found out it was techno magic with lasers and pulse rifles made my excuses and bailed didn't interest me.

 

[Chaosmancer]

When you write that it's easy to find a place for a race somewhere in a setting as if that will resolve all issues then yes, you are making that assumption.

I think you are missing where that argument is coming from though.

Lizardfolk would clearly never work in a Dark Sun game, right? I mean they live in swamps, abilities related to water, could never work... Except Dark Sun made the Ssurran. Desert Lizardfolk who had survived the destruction of their swamps and kill any magic user on sight.

Or, how about the Orcs? Can't have orcs in Dark Sun, they were all killed off... but the hulking ape-like Tarek were added in. A logical race that might have evolved in the mountains from yetis or even just apes, and they fill a lot of the same ideological niche as Orcs did back then. So, they had a stand-in orc that still made sense for the setting.



So, yeah, it is easy to find a place for a race. To tie it into the themes of the setting or even strengthen the themes by its inclusion. That doesn't immediately make them a playable race, but once a race exists... it isn't that hard to figure out ways to make them playable, especially since many of the "monstrous races" have societies that interact and trade with each other all the time.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's fine but I'm the DM. My opinion matters more lol.

" Sorry mr police officer I disagree with you about smoking meth".

Some opinions are more valid.

When your opinion of the game has the same weight as a law enforced by a government, police force and judicial system, then I'll agree your opinion matters more than your players.

Until then, I see no reason to believe that my or any other DMs opinion should be so much more important than the other people sitting at the table.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

"Speaking personally" means that I'm speaking about my personal preferences. They are what they are. You're trying to make a point by turning my "is" into an "ought." Cut it out.

“I wouldn't want to play with a DM who delegates the basics of the job.” -you

that is more a statement of judgement about how other DMs run their game. It’s an insulting characterization of a style of DMing that you don’t prefer.

 

[Maxperson]

"So player one what do you"
View attachment 130174

"I scatter the dice".

There's always one.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hussar, read the quote above your. That is the quote that I was responding to. That person said "minute generic amount of worldbuilding." That is the context Sabathius created. I responded:
"Again. For maybe the hundredth time, there is not one DM on here that has ever said anything remotely close to that. Not even in the slightest. Not even a little. Not even a microscopic cell's worth. Not even an atom's worth."
No one has denied the player's ability to do minute changes. No one has denied the player's ability to make some generic changes. No one. Not Oofta. Not me. Not anyone.
As for Oofta's quote, he is correct. It says it right there in the DM's Guide, in the opening pages no less. That doesn't mean that players are exempt from helping. It says it is the DM's job. It is their creation. They are the ones that have to run it, work with it, create the settings, NPC's, kingdoms. They are the ones that need to make it interesting. They need to give it an internal logic that doesn't make the players' noses curl. What it does not mean is that a player can't ask about creating a northern tribe for his wily rogue that steals from frost giants. The player can - and should ask this.
Again, no one here has said otherwise.
In fact, everyone here has specifically said they try to compromise. It is just sometimes a group on here doesn't like the compromise, ie, dragonborns don't exist or drow are evil no matter what or half races don't exist. Just because they say this doesn't mean they wouldn't compromise and try to work out a background for a different race or try to allow some power that the dragonborn has. That is compromise, not you "must" allow this.

A few problems with this.

First, pre-made settings and Adventure Paths. Suddenly the setting isn't the creation of the DM. They didn't need to design or create anything. I could most likely run "The Red Hand of Doom" or "Die Vecna Die!" without creating much of anything.

Second, you contradict yourself, or at least you draw the line in a strange place. Because you say that the Player not only can, but should ask about creating a northern tribe for their character to have come from, and no one disagrees with that.... but people do disagree that you should create a northern tribe of Goliaths if Goliaths aren't in the setting. Or at least, some of the posters on here have said that. They have a list of races, and if you deviate from that, you have done wrong.

So how do you make sense of that? Players can and should ask about filling in the setting with their ideas, but they shouldn't propose things that the DM hasn't approved? Is that Northern tribe perfectly fine if they are dwarves, but not fine if they are Goliaths? Or shifters?

"Feel free to add what you like, as long as I like it" seems to be the truth of the matter, while at the same time, the DM might not have made anything. They could have just as easily opened a book and read the first grey box they saw, and yet that doesn't seem to make a difference in whether or not the player is overstepping by doing what you said they should do, just not in exactly the way the DM would approve.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I agree with both sides of this. The DM's world is theirs. Should they be open to unclenching their fists? Sure. But the question still exists as to why the player insists on creating something outside of the DM's list?

If the DM insists there are no gnomes in their world, but anything else in the PHB is open, and the player insists on being a gnome. The question there lies with the player, not the DM. (IMHO)

IMO if I’ve an idea for a Gnomish culture that fits really well with what’s established, and the DM can’t handle the thought of even discussing it, the DM is being overly precious about their vision, and need to get over themself.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Didn't say anything of the sort.

If I see a DM advertising a game with limitations I read what they are and them sign up or not.

It's basic courtesy.

Nothing of the sort?

Might be a generational thing. Younger people don't like the word no, parents used to say "because I said so" and if you pushed it the strap was an option.

So got used to the word no.

Let us see, you call it a generational thing. Then you say "younger people" implying that this is a generational thing that only applies to people younger than you.

Oh, then you say all young people don't like the word no.

Then you follow up with the fact that your parents would give you the "because I said so" line, and if you pushed the issue they whipped you with a strap.

And that's why you are used to the word "no"

Implying that the reason young people don't like the word no is because their parent's didn't say "because I said so" and whip them with a strap. Because if they had they would have turned out like you been used to hearing no.

Because if they had been raised properly, they wouldn't act like this.


So yeah, I think you said something of the sort.