D&D General The DM is Not a Player; and Hot Topic is Not Punk Rock

[Umbran]

My assertion: In D&D, the DM is NOT a player.

1. Common Usage.

2. Division of Roles.

3. The Division of Roles Matters in D&D.

All of those three points, however, are largely irrelevant to the meaning in which "the DM is a player" really matters.

If we set aside the rare case where the GM is actually a paid position, all the people involved are gathered to gain entertainment form engaging in play. In that sense, they are all players. And, that is the important sense.

Yes, there's some division of roles, but lots of games have that. A goalie is not a forward - they have different skillsets, different equipment, and do different things in pursuit of play.

In large part due to Gygax's original take on the relationship between GM and player, we have a tendency to think of the GM as a referee. But, to be honest, Gygax was still locked in the wargame concept, in which sometimes there was, in fact, a referee between two sides of players. But, that's not what actually happens in D&D.

The GM actually makes decisions for units in the play space themselves. THEY ARE ALSO PLAYING. Ergo, they are a player, and we should keep that in consideration more frequently than we often do.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What's this 'when' and 'was' you speak of?

Well, back when XP was gained almost exclusively from GP-value. It's totally cool if you prefer to play that way, wasn't meaning to imply it's "outdated" or anything. Just that the focus of the game has shifted toward a place where that is...I can't even say it's "less" supported, PVP and pure murderhobo selfishness just isn't very supported anymore. You can always still do it, but you have to port it in.

 

[loverdrive]

Any story that arises does so in hindsight, unless the GM is running a pre-scripted plot on a hard rail.

That's just simply wrong.

Group can (and certainly should) make conscious effort to forge a story, with structure, characters arcs and naughty word without a pre-scripted plot. Well, pre-scripted plot on a hard rail ultimately contradicts this goal.

But that's besides the actual point.

Whatever kind of game the group plays, both players and GM need to make a conscious effort to push the game in the intended direction. If they are playing a dungeon crawl, then there must be dungeons and the PCs must venture in those dungeons. If they, say, playing comedy, then they need both work together to set up and deliver jokes that work. If they... Ok, I guess you've got my point.

 

[not-so-newguy]

More Hot Topic, less DM/player blah blah blah.

 

[Older Beholder]

To paraphrase Shakespeare:

All the (D&D) world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players
They have their exits and their entrances
And one man (The DM) in his time plays many parts...

 

[Lanefan]

That's just simply wrong.

Group can (and certainly should) make conscious effort to forge a story, with structure, characters arcs and naughty word without a pre-scripted plot.

Why make a conscious effort, though? Why not just play in the moment from adventure to adventure, and see if it hapens to string together into a coherent story in hindsight?

Often, I find that some trivial thing from adventure 4 in a campaign can become highly relevant in adventure 16 but nobody including the DM makes the connection until adventure 19 when looking back over the game logs. Thus, the story unfolds in hindsight.

Whatever kind of game the group plays, both players and GM need to make a conscious effort to push the game in the intended direction. If they are playing a dungeon crawl, then there must be dungeons and the PCs must venture in those dungeons. If they, say, playing comedy, then they need both work together to set up and deliver jokes that work. If they... Ok, I guess you've got my point.

There needs be some effort, yes, but not necessarily overt or obvious. As long as actual game-play is occurring (as opposed to chit-chat or other distractions) the game will inevitably move in some direction; and whether this direction is what anyone originally intended is irrelevant as long as all hands are having fun with it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's funny that this entire argument is resolved with capitalization.

A DM is playing the D&D game. They play a game, so they are a player.

The DM does not have a Player Character. So as DM, they are not a Player.

Is a DM a player? Yes. Is a DM a Player? No.






...I may have hit peak pedantry...

The solution is obvious:

[English]The DM isn't a player because the DM is a Gentleman.[/English]

 

[Weiley31]

The solution is obvious:

[English]The DM isn't a player because the DM is a Gentleman.[/English]

Quite.

 

[Azzy]

Hot Topic is what remains of Punk Rock.​

No, old punks and new punks keep on doing their thing to this day. Punk is not dead (though too many of the old musicians are).

 

[Umbran]

No, old punks and new punks keep on doing their thing to this day. Punk is not dead (though too many of the old musicians are).

The real center of what was punk now rests in the hip-hop community.