D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[doctorbadwolf]

I’ve never seen or read of a centaur bending forwards or backwards at the “join.” So, to me, that bit is either completely inflexible or mostly inflexible.

Why would you make that jump, though?

If a creature can’t pick things up off the ground, that is an incredible disability. How would a species of such creatures survive reliably? Such a limitation would have to be noted to exist, because it calls for an explanation.

Even if we conclude the limitation exists, it’s totally impossible to imagine them being able to climb that way? Really? Taking 4 times longer isn’t an adequate impediment?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Likewise, a centaur isn’t going to be able to pick a lock with its hooves. They can pick a lock with their hands or kick the door in with their hooves. But there’s no dexterity or fine manipulation with their hooves. Internal consistency. They’re hooves, not feet or fingers. No digits, no fine manipulation...without magic. But I guess that makes me a naughty word DM to a few people here. Oh well.

I’m not sure what the connection is between this and any other part of the discussion?

So it comes down to how does the physical mechanics of a centaur work? A horse‘s neck is fairly flexible and they can lower their heads to the ground. And a person can bend at the waist to touch the ground. So is the torso spine a horse’s neck or a human spine? That difference matters.

I’m at my in-laws and dinner is almost ready, so I’m not gonna save and post a bunch of pics, but if you google centaur images, and look at the images where they are rearing up on hind legs, they don’t remain in an L shape when they do so.

They pretty much couldn’t function as plains Hunter gatherers (as they are often depicted), without special tools (which they’re never depicted having) if they can’t reach their hands down to the ground, or at least get close. We know they function just fine, we know they can bend their torso forward (as shown in rearing art), so obviously they can lean forward far enough to interact with things on the ground, ie, thing at the same plane as their hooves.

 

[MGibster]

I can just imagine how that scene might play out in a game.

Me: Okay, you're hiding in tall grass and although you've successfully remain hidden thus far, one of the centaur guards perks up and he staring directly at you. You made no movement to attract his attention, but perhaps the glint of the sun was reflected in the many jewels are something. The centaur is poised similar to a hunting dog who has spotted his quarry and it prepared to rush towards it at any second.

Player: Crap! I've been made. How close am I to the wall and can I get to it before the centaur overtakes me?

Me: The wall is only 100 feet away but you're not quite sure if you can reach it before the centaur overtakes you. It'll be close.

Player: I leap up and make a beeline for the wall as fast as I can.

Me: You dash across the savanna, grass and dried soil crunching beneath your feet, sweat pours down your face, from heat or fear you cannot be sure, and the sound of distant hoof beats behind your draw ever closer. You reach the wall and the ladder your companions left for you and with the thundering hooves drawing ever closer you manage to scramble up the ladder before the centaur is on you.

Player: Whew! I push the ladder to the ground.

Me: You push the ladder to the ground and the centaur looks at you with baleful eyes beating his club against the wall and the ground. The centaur slings his club over his back and starts climbing the wall.

Player: What? How steep is this wall?

Me: Oh, it's 90 degree wall.

Player: How the hell can a centaur climb a wall? Does he have magical abilities or anything?

Me: No. But there's nothing in the rules that say he can't climb the wall.

Player: >:-(

 

[Older Beholder]

I can’t help thinking the Centaur v Ladder is why Planescape went with the bariaur. A lot easier to picture climbing ladders and walls with mountain goat legs.


Personally I don’t really see a problem, even if the DM is going to rule that it’s impossible (rather than allow for an athletics check with disadvantage at a high DC) in the end it just becomes another puzzle to solve, and solving puzzles is a fun part of the game.

This thread tangent is actually giving me an idea for a Centaur Druid.

This is all beside the point anyway.
There aren’t any ladders in Theros, everyone knows that.

 

[Maxperson]

Wow. Didn't say that either.

You said 'I can't imagine centaurs on ladders'.

I said, 'That isn't the players' problem.'

And it isn't. They can't make you believe something you find unbelievable. You either do that yourself or you don't.

This is you, and not too far back. "Your inability to imagine a thing is not a player problem." That's you saying people not doing it like you prefer suffering from a lack of imagination.

 

[Maxperson]

Why would you make that jump, though?

If a creature can’t pick things up off the ground, that is an incredible disability. How would a species of such creatures survive reliably? Such a limitation would have to be noted to exist, because it calls for an explanation.

Even if we conclude the limitation exists, it’s totally impossible to imagine them being able to climb that way? Really? Taking 4 times longer isn’t an adequate impediment?

It would probably pick things up off the ground by kneeling to get low enough.

 

[Jack Daniel]

This is you, and not too far back. "Your inability to imagine a thing is not a player problem." That's you saying people not doing it like you prefer suffering from a lack of imagination.

It's patent nonsense anyway. If the DM can't even picture the basics of how an action a player wants to take is remotely feasible, that's most definitely the player's problem, not the DM's. It's incumbent upon the player at that point to demonstrate that it's possible; otherwise the DM is well within their rights to say "no" by fiat and cite no justification beyond "common sense."

Of course DMs are fallible. They can make bad calls, they can be wrong on matters of fact. But in the absence of a reference work or an expert to consult, the DM makes the call. And even when those things are handy, the DM still gets the final word on what happens in the fiction, because that's the basic dynamic at work here. Players input; the DM processes and outputs.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Me: You push the ladder to the ground and the centaur looks at you with baleful eyes beating his club against the wall and the ground. The centaur slings his club over his back and starts climbing the wall.

Player: What? How steep is this wall?

Me: Oh, it's 90 degree wall.

Player: How the hell can a centaur climb a wall? Does he have magical abilities or anything?

"Of course, the centaurs teach their foals acrobatic wall-climbing techniques to prevent the difficulty caused by their inability to pick up the ladder you left laying on the ground".

 

[FrozenNorth]

Sure. There are definitely ways around the difficulty with climbing.

Well, to get back to the original discussion of the thread, a lot depends on context.

Alice: Can I play a centaur? I’m thinking of a druid with a nature theme.
DM: No, how would you climb ladders or enter taverns?
Alice: Well, I could wildshape beginning at level 2.
DM: Ok, but what about when that expires?
Alice: Bob, you want to play a wizard, right? Mind picking up Reduce and Spider Climb at level 3?
Bob: No problem, I was going to go Transmuter anyway.
DM: Still no.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Comic books, then, since you brought those up. Demonstrate that a centaur climbing a ladder is "comic book believable."

Easy, any Rob Liefeld centaur can contort themselves like Gumby. Should have no problem climbing.