D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Jack Daniel]

(C'mon, we can do it! 200 pages before the end of 2020! Go-go-go!)

 

[Oofta]

(C'mon, we can do it! 200 pages before the end of 2020! Go-go-go!)

Bah, who would want to do that?

 

[Maxperson]

Bah, who would want to do that?

Yeah. Seriously. What kind of person would just pad a thread with posts like that?.

 

[Oofta]

Yeah. Seriously. What kind of person would just pad a thread with posts like that?.

I don't know but can we keep it up for 6 more posts?

 

[Voadam]

You are punishing (again) the centaur for something he already is being punished for. Lets look at the actual rules:

Equine Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push or drag.
In addition, any climb that requires hands and feet is especially difficult for you because of your equine legs. When you make such a climb, each foot of movement costs you 4 extra feet, instead of the normal 1 extra foot.

So, a centaur CAN climb, very slowly, using the difficult terrain rules. That is penalty enough. A centaur trying to climb a rope or a steep cliff moved 1 foot per every 5 ft of movement expended; or (assuming he's not a monk or barbarian) in one round he climbs 8 feet while a human can climb 15. If your using a grid; he moves one square (round down) to every 3 squares the human moves. If you want to rule that the centaur is equally ungainly on a spiral staircase, the double or quadruple move penalty is equally acceptable.

Stepping away from normal stairs to just take those rules on their own, I'd say penalty enough is a judgment call. The fact that a centaur could climb something a person requires hands and feet to climb is pretty boggling narratively, so saying they do it slower than other PCs does not solve the problem people have with them climbing.

Narratively is there anything saying how this would look? Is there any lore in Ravnica to give centaurs a slow drider wall crawling or rigging climbing ability? Is there something in their fey nature that makes them buoyant with some pixie dust? How does it look when they want to climb something that requires people to use their hands to climb it? Do their human/horse interface parts bend 90 degrees so they look more like a scorpion while scaling? Do they haul themselves up a rope or a cliff with their horse parts at 90 degrees and their back limbs dangling? What does Ravnica give for narrative hooks here? From googling Ravnica centaurs the art from the card game looks like normal centaur art.

Is there anything more than a bare rules statement saying they can slowly climb anything anybody else can?

 

[Minigiant]

So guys.

When are we getting an official partial undead race?

I wanna be Blade.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Yeah. Seriously. What kind of person would just pad a thread with posts like that?.

Clearly someone with a great deal of important things to say concerning centaurs and pizza toppings.

I hear tell they're fond of carrots.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

When are we getting an official partial undead race?

I've got two homebrew races like that, one connected to corporeal undead (this race being the Vezyi) and the other connected to incorporeal undead (this race named the Fehntüm). They both are created by and devoted to Vecna, and they live in the Underdark of the Shadowfell (which I have named the Underfell).

I wish there were official undead-touched races though. That would be really cool. (Dhampir are overrated. Fight me.)

 

[Scott Christian]

Let us be clear - this is NOT a balance issue. The character does not somehow become stunningly mechanically powerful due to having the ability to climb stairs. The character's DPR doesn't skyrocket into unreasonable places, the character does not gain the ability to grab more than their fair share of spotlight, or the like, for the ability to get to the next level of the dungeon just like everyone else.

For some it is not a balance issue. We had a sixty page argument on whether an extra +1, 5% or less, was overpowered. Again, for some. Not everyone. For some.

This is simulation. As I noted, it took me all of 30 seconds to find videos of horses dealing with basic stairs, so I am not convinced this is a good, well-researched simulation that folks should find satisfying. It looks... like a rather arbitrary application of preconceived notions, to be honest.

I never said they can't climb down stairs. It is difficult for them. Maybe even it's not that difficult for centaur, that has a centaur brain. But what about the staircases Oofta pointed out? What about a shanty inn of poor construction? What if there is danger at the bottom of the stairs? What if someone is chasing the centaur? What if the stairs are in the dark? What if one of the stairs has has a bunch of children's toys sitting on it and the centaur needs to get down the stairs immediately? These are all scenarios. All of them the DM adjudicates whether the centaur rolls or not and how difficult it might be.
If the centaur walked down the stairs with no worries and was just going to his room in the inn that wouldn't be suited for him anyway (because a modified version where they deal with centaurs would have a ramp and a larger room they could rest in), I personally wouldn't even have them roll. But circumstances arise. In the example, I immediately thought of situations where they would roll. You obviously put it in a single context, the centaur during his leisure.

And in a game/world with fire breathing dragons threatening towns, wicked necromancers trying to take over nations, the interesting bit is, "can I generally climb stairs without falling down". In terms of the stakes in the fiction, whether the character can generally get to a second floor... isn't the big question of the day.

Ah, the dragon example. The stairs is a side note in the entire debate of centaurs. It started out as rope ladders and climbing cliff walls. Let's remember the posts about goats and RAW. Then, when it turns out the centaur restricted side said, "whatever works for your table is ok. But, as a DM I should be allowed to make the call that a centaur can't climb a rope ladder to the crow's nest." Then 20 pages later it is the pro centaur side saying, "So now they can't even walk up and down stairs." No mention of it being a table by table decision.

So, yeah, this is petty. Small. Of little import to the world.

I would say this is endemic of this entire thread. Petty has a negative connotation. It implies the petty person is wrong if they make the centaur roll. Hence, any DM that chooses to run their table where the centaur is at a penalty (EDIT: By penalty, I mean having the centaur roll) while moving up and down stairs in an inn (which everyone pictures differently) is badwrongnofun.

One side says, whatever works for your table. The other side insists their way is correct, and if it isn't then the DM (or DM and players in this example) are petty.

 

[Scott Christian]

I see that type of player.
My point is many DMs protray them as powergamers whereas historically people playing weird races were playing weaker PCs in D&D and just looking for alternate angles to typical D&D problems.

Ah. I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Well often people wanted those races because the DM or world builder lacked that culture in the forefront of their setting.

It is easier to say the weird race is the leaders of the dragon/demon/fey/death/sex cult than to convince the DM that the same thing hides within their carefully described human kingdom.

Fair enough.