D&D General What is the appeal of Tolkien fantasy races?

[Scribe]

Dwarves in myth were grumpy greedy crafters on a dark rock-world.
And how many children and young adults do D&D and LOTR elves kidnap?

OK...so Dwarves check out, and Elves, you are looking at a different breed of Elf. The Tolkein Elf is the one which then propagated across the landscape, not the Fey version.

Which goes back to my point. Tolkein race tropes are the Trope Maker, to quote TV Tropes.

 

[Minigiant]

OK...so Dwarves check out, and Elves, you are looking at a different breed of Elf. The Tolkein Elf is the one which then propagated across the landscape, not the Fey version.

Which goes back to my point. Tolkein race tropes are the Trope Maker, to quote TV Tropes.

So the answer is Tolkien.

And it dragonborn, spidermen, catfolk, and tieflings were in LOTR, they would be seen as traditional races as well and have the same appeal.

 

[Scribe]

And it dragonborn, spidermen, catfolk, and tieflings were in LOTR, they would be seen as traditional races as well and have the same appeal.

Yes, if they were put into foundational, global works, that hit millions upon millions of people over decades, with supporting reinforcement across a number of different publishers, with continued use and expansion on the same basic tropes, other races would be just as deep, and rich historically as Elves, and Dwarves.

But they are not.

 

[zarionofarabel]

So the answer is Tolkien.

And it dragonborn, spidermen, catfolk, and tieflings were in LOTR, they would be seen as traditional races as well and have the same appeal.

But those races weren't, so they aren't.

 

[Minigiant]

But those races weren't, so they aren't.

Exactly.
But it seem like people don't want to admit it is all just Tolkien and not "mythology" or "humanlike features".

If you like Tolkien and the many works copying him, you probably like traditional D&D races. That's it

 

[zarionofarabel]

Exactly.
But it seem like people don't want to admit it is all just Tolkien and not "mythology" or "humanlike features".

If you like Tolkien and the many works copying him, you probably like traditional D&D races. That's it

Well, I will admit that the appeal is probably familiarity.

Then again I'm the guy that thinks all Non-Human races are just cheesy (or offensive) stereotypes, or rubber forehead aliens, or humans in funny hats.

So take what I think with a grain of salt...

 

[Scribe]

Exactly.
But it seem like people don't want to admit it is all just Tolkien and not "mythology" or "humanlike features".

If you like Tolkien and the many works copying him, you probably like traditional D&D races. That's it

I dont believe you are talking about me, but I feel I've been pretty clear. There is an entire catalog of supporting works, and 'world building' in the form of tropes that come as far more readily understood for the tolkien races, if we wish to call them that.

Thats it for me. Thats the appeal. It has nothing to do with mythology (unless we are calling LoTR Mythology) and nothing to do with Human-Like, because that would still apply to Tieflings (which as a race, I really enjoy the concept of, and Aasimar btw, because I like to lean into the outer realms, Heaven/Hell, in my fantasy) but neither of them have any grounding, in comparison to Elves and Dwarves.

And yes, its because of Tolkien, and what came after him that cribbed off him.

 

[demonsquidgod]

I would say it's more than just Tolkien. An entire generation of novelists and game designers were influenced by Tolkien and D&D. Which leads to a feedback loop.

Cats are the exception to the general rule but even then you only have minimal behavioral characteristics, but what would their culture look like? Where's the widespread, easily recognized artwork depicting where anthropomorphic cat people live? For that matter, where do they live? Different people will come up with different answers which is not wrong, but not as appealing to some people.

This makes sense to me. Tolkien has already done the work for you. If I play a human I still have to answer a bunch of questions about what kind of human. Similarly dragon-folk, demon-folk, animal people and the like hit certain broad archetypes but still require the player to do some creative work and come up with original thoughts. You can't just say "I'm like legolas" and be fine.

That seems boring to me but for new, or lazy, players it's probably an important crutch.

 

[Minigiant]

This makes sense to me. Tolkien has already done the work for you. If I play a human I still have to answer a bunch of questions about what kind of human. Similarly dragon-folk, demon-folk, animal people and the like hit certain broad archetypes but still require the player to do some creative work and come up with original thoughts. You can't just say "I'm like legolas" and be fine.

That seems boring to me but for new, or lazy, players it's probably an important crutch.

That only counts if your are from the traditional far group of D&D.

If you are from an area, group, or culture with establishe dragon, demon, or animal tropes, no other questions are needed.

The traditional races only have a wider appeal due to Tolkien's appeal and the extremely high number of copycats.
The other side is that the traditional races are so well known, many authors and designers are subverting and breaking the tropes. So eventually the assumptions on traditional elves will no longer be first guesses. AKA Warcraft orcs and Age of Sigmarr Duardin (Goddammit Games Workshop).

 

[Voadam]

Such as? When we are talking about tropes, local stories (meaning what, a city? A province? What is local?) we are talking about things which transcend personal experience and are more generally known to provide a framework of general understanding.



Cat People are just Cats??

The argument is that Animal People, have tropes that are just their animal behaviors on a humanoid?

Whats a Dragonkin's Tropes? Teifling?

Honestly, asking, as that (to bring it back to the OP) is the appeal of 'Tolkien Races'. They are an established point of grounding, that near anyone who has dipped their toes into fantasy at any level, understand. It improves the shared experience, and provides a sense of world building that has already been done, while providing a coherent framework.

Dragonkin and the rest? Don't have nearly the same impact.

If you want to explore some tropes there is the tropes website with examples for D&D races (both Tolkienish core ones and the more exotic ones like tiefling and dragonborn) and general catfolk and dragon people and lizard folk and snake people and bird people and others.