D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Gammadoodler]

LOL, brilliant, while he might have True Seeing, keeping it going would cost him resources, that he will not then have for the fight to come and his minions would have no such advantage, so his CR 3 Megan would all be gibbering idiots in 3 turns.

It definitely borks the pet builds pretty hard, and layering it through glyphs means you can have more in an area than can reliably be dispelled.

Also, I'm not sure how the true seeing and illusory reality interact, if it's "real" for that 1 minute, do you still see through it? If not, illusory reality costs 1 bonus action/minute, so the only barrier to keeping things "real" non-stop is the need to sleep, and all that's without malleable illusion shenanigans or doing things like saying:

"within this space is a constant ear-splitting wail the smell of rotting flesh and the feeling of sand being constantly blown in your face...good luck sleeping"

 

[JiffyPopTart]

It definitely borks the pet builds pretty hard, and layering it through glyphs means you can have more in an area than can reliably be dispelled.

Also, I'm not sure how the true seeing and illusory reality interact, if it's "real" for that 1 minute, do you still see through it? If not, illusory reality costs 1 bonus action/minute, so the only barrier to keeping things "real" non-stop is the need to sleep, and all that's without malleable illusion shenanigans or doing things like saying:

"within this space is a constant ear-splitting wail the smell of rotting flesh and the feeling of sand being constantly blown in your face...good luck sleeping"

With this plan, though, you are falling into the "hiding in my fortress" trap. I think the illusionist would go a long way encountering any of the Shrodinger's Sorcerer builds by just using super low level illusions to appear to step out from behind cover, and begin casting a spell aimed at the pegasus.

The OP already stated they are using a reaction to subtle dispel everything cast their way so this eats up some resources making them think they are dispelling something. Then on their turn they go nova and unleash a megafireball that "kills" a low level illusion. Then you do it a couple more times. Then after a couple rounds of eating up the sorcerer's resources having to dispel your illusions you do whatever you want to do that actually is going to kill them.

I think the Illusionist route may very well be the best counter to novastriking.

 

[Gammadoodler]

With this plan, though, you are falling into the "hiding in my fortress" trap. I think the illusionist would go a long way encountering any of the Shrodinger's Sorcerer builds by just using super low level illusions to appear to step out from behind cover, and begin casting a spell aimed at the pegasus.

The OP already stated they are using a reaction to subtle dispel everything cast their way so this eats up some resources making them think they are dispelling something. Then on their turn they go nova and unleash a megafireball that "kills" a low level illusion. Then you do it a couple more times. Then after a couple rounds of eating up the sorcerer's resources having to dispel your illusions you do whatever you want to do that actually is going to kill them.

I think the Illusionist route may very well be the best counter to novastriking.

I like that plan for using the illusions as feints.

The mirage arcane plan was built more for the pet build demigod to turn the sorcerer's hidey hole into a true prison rather than just a self-imposed one. It does rely somewhat on some rather abusive interpretations of some very loosely worded spells and abilities though.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

It definitely borks the pet builds pretty hard, and layering it through glyphs means you can have more in an area than can reliably be dispelled.

Also, I'm not sure how the true seeing and illusory reality interact, if it's "real" for that 1 minute, do you still see through it? If not, illusory reality costs 1 bonus action/minute, so the only barrier to keeping things "real" non-stop is the need to sleep, and all that's without malleable illusion shenanigans or doing things like saying:

"within this space is a constant ear-splitting wail the smell of rotting flesh and the feeling of sand being constantly blown in your face...good luck sleeping"

Running on the assumption that he has to come out of his hidey hole to actually find wizards to kill, his fortress is useless to him, otherwise he is not a threat to anyone, let alone Foggy Bottom. Mirage Arcane is a very specific kind of illusion and states in the spell description that True sight only allows you to see that it is an illusion, but the illusionary objects created by it are still there, so he knows the tree is an illusion, he can even see through it, but he still has to walk around it, because it is solid. Mirage Arcane also has the advantage that there is no saving throw against it, so you can disbelieve all you want, it will not work. Throw in a Control Weather to make the flyers lives miserable and now you have 2 must dispel effects, so the sorcerer scratches off a 7th level slot and an 8th level slot before the fight has even started. Using Glyphs, I am still at my full spell Strength and his bet is to run at this point, because even after the dispels, he still has no idea where I am at and what my larger plan is.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Running on the assumption that he has to come out of his hidey hole to actually find wizards to kill, his fortress is useless to him, otherwise he is not a threat to anyone, let alone Foggy Bottom. Mirage Arcane is a very specific kind of illusion and states in the spell description that True sight only allows you to see that it is an illusion, but the illusionary objects created by it are still there, so he knows the tree is an illusion, he can even see through it, but he still has to walk around it, because it is solid. Mirage Arcane also has the advantage that there is no saving throw against it, so you can disbelieve all you want, it will not work. Throw in a Control Weather to make the flyers lives miserable and now you have 2 must dispel effects, so the sorcerer scratches off a 7th level slot and an 8th level slot before the fight has even started. Using Glyphs, I am still at my full spell Strength and his bet is to run at this point, because even after the dispels, he still has no idea where I am at and what my larger plan is.

Exactly.

And it is veeerrry loosely worded. For example, as near as I can tell, there is no height restriction and it says you can add structures without any guidance or real limitations on those structures..so for sci-fi horror fans out there, Cube would seem to be a rules legal application (more or less).

One thing I'm not sure of is how much insight the caster has into the area affected by the illusion and whether they can see through it themselves.

 

[FireLance]

On the subject of 1 on 1 duels, I gave the following opinion in another thread:

I think a standard one-on-one single fight overly advantages PCs with daily abilities. I wonder how the builds and tactics would change if the rules of the competion were as follows instead:

1. No preparation.
2. The fight is over eight bouts of three rounds each, with one hour between each bout.
3. The contestants are allowed to take three short rests which are evenly spaced: between bout 2 and 3, 4 and 5, and 6 and 7.
4. Any time a contestant is killed in a bout, his opponent scores one victory. The dead contestant is then raised and restored to full hit points, and the next bout commences one hour later as normal.
5. The winner is the contestant who has scored the most victories after all eight bouts. If both contestants are tied after eight bouts, they fight a ninth bout with no time limit.

In this way, a nasty combo might win you one bout, but you had better be able to do something equally impressive in the other seven (or eight).

Edit: Given the penalties for raise dead, let's assume the use of revivify instead.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

Exactly.

And it is veeerrry loosely worded. For example, as near as I can tell, there is no height restriction and it says you can add structures without any guidance or real limitations on those structures..so for sci-fi horror fans out there, Cube would seem to be a rules legal application (more or less).

One thing I'm not sure of is how much insight the caster has into the area affected by the illusion and whether they can see through it themselves.

I would be perfectly okay with a ruling that True Sight allows them to see through the Illusion, does not matter, they still have to go around it and even if you know its an illusion and can see through it, the sorcerer is not the intended target. The idea is he either burns spell slots or he has to retreat back to his Mom's basement, and he won't be taking his minions with him. Either way, he pays a price for entering my domain. If he decides to spend the war avoiding my domain, then the wizards survive and we win.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

The mirage arcane plan was built more for the pet build demigod to turn the sorcerer's hidey hole into a true prison rather than just a self-imposed one. It does rely somewhat on some rather abusive interpretations of some very loosely worded spells and abilities though.

To be fair, that is how the OP is building as well. Can't fault you for "loosely" interpreting something...which is why I find the "DM Pwease" dismissal of Divine Intervention frustrating, since that is basically doing the same thing.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I would be perfectly okay with a ruling that True Sight allows them to see through the Illusion, does not matter, they still have to go around it and even if you know its an illusion and can see through it, the sorcerer is not the intended target. The idea is he either burns spell slots or he has to retreat back to his Mom's basement, and he won't be taking his minions with him. Either way, he pays a price for entering my domain. If he decides to spend the war avoiding my domain, then the wizards survive and we win.

Keep in mind that OP consistently states they are flying on a pegasus 660' away from everything so they can use their extended spell ranges. True Seeing/Truesight only works out to 120' range. They probably wouldn't notice most things were illusions unless they got within 120', which sets them up to be blasted by many spells in return.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

Keep in mind that OP consistently states they are flying on a pegasus 660' away from everything so they can use their extended spell ranges. True Seeing/Truesight only works out to 120' range. They probably wouldn't notice most things were illusions unless they got within 120', which sets them up to be blasted by many spells in return.

That is fine, I can create a 60 story tower out of thin air, which would be a very big surprise to someone flying around in thick cloud cover, as a side note, 660 feet is about 55 stories. Control weather would not be an illusion, so he can't see crap. I am pretty sure I can come up with other distractions for him as well, forcing him burn through spell slots or retreat. Like I said, reality is what I say it is.