D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Gammadoodler]

Hostile actions that you can see, you can't fight against something that you can't detect. The Bastion is undetected for you.
Is It hard to understand?

Subtle Polymorph. Subtle Dispel are spells without visual effect until the target failed.

You've read the feat, right? It's specifically built as a counter to unseen threats that rely on surprise.

Of course initiative is rolled, and of course the wizard(or whatever) gets a full turn, action, bonus and all. The only thing stealth gets you at that point is that you can't be targeted by spells that rely on seeing your target.

(Btw you should think about picking up the feat so you don't get auto-ganked by a party of rogues)

 

[Hohige]

Okay, no. Just no. If you want to hide in the shadows for ten minutes subtly casting the private sanctum, that is one thing, but when you cast a spell on someone with hostile intent initiative is rolled. Whether they can meaningfully use their turn against your Emo Psycho Killer whom they haven't detected is one thing, whether they are surprised is another, but you are doing something that requires initiative. Against NPCs a DM might handwave that away, but a player is going to get their initiative roll.

If you found a DM who ruled it your way in a PvP context the other player would walk away from the table never to return and they would be right to do so. They would then post on an RPG horror story forum about how they had a horrible DM who let this one powergaming Sorcerer player walk all over them.

If the Sorcerer finished to Subtle Private Sanctum (Because It's obvious visual effect) and the Simulacrum casts Subtle Spell Dispel.
For me It's obviously a iniative roll.
But It's a death sentese for Wizards.



But Subtle Polymorph / Subtle Dispel don't have visible effects. No initiative. Poor Chicken Wizards.

 

[Krachek]

I'm sorry, you are trying use Investigation vs Stealth check.
You probaly don't know the D&D basic skill checks. ^^

A Dm decide which abitly check and which DC are required in response to a player description. It may involve skill, or not, depending on the situation. An intelligence check using investigation may be ask to screw the Baston defense. It is straight basic DnD.

 

[Hohige]

You've read the feat, right? It's specifically built as a counter to unseen threats that rely on surprise.

Of course initiative is rolled, and of course the wizard(or whatever) gets a full turn, action, bonus and all. The only thing stealth gets you at that point is that you can't be targeted by spells that rely on seeing your target.

(Btw you should think about picking up the feat so you don't get auto-ganked by a party of rogues)

I very strongly disagree.

• You can’t be surprised while you are conscious.
• You gain a +5 bonus to initiative.
• Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you.

Attack roll reveal your position and It's a clear visual attack.
It works against Rogue's attack that come out hiding when It attacks.

Nothing about It apply to Subtle Spells that isn't an attack roll and The bastion remains hidden. No initiative.

 

[Hohige]

A Dm decide which abitly check and which DC are required in response to a player description. It may involve skill, or not, depending on the situation. An intelligence check using investigation may be ask to screw the Baston defense. It is straight basic DnD.

If your DM allows you use Investigation check against Sorcerer's Stealth. You still failed.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Since there are no published 5e chicken stats your chickenification as auto-win plan also assumes that the DM makes up weak stats for the chicken.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I very strongly disagree.

• You can’t be surprised while you are conscious.
• You gain a +5 bonus to initiative.
• Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you.

Attack roll reveal your position and It's a clear visual attack.
I work against Rogue's attack that come out hiding when It attacks.

Nothing about It apply to Subtle Spells that isn't an attack roll and The bastion remains hidden.

"I subtly cast x on the wizard"
DM: roll initiative.

It's that simple. It's exactly equivalent to if you try and stab the BBEG you're chatting with at the bar while they're monologuing.

They get a chance to beat your initiative. So does the wizard.

EZPZ

 

[Hohige]

Since there are no published 5e chicken stats your chickenification as auto-win plan also assumes that the DM makes up weak stats for the chicken.

STR 20
DEX 25
CON 10
INT 1
WIS 30
CAR 50
Attack roll +50. 430 force damage.

 

[Krachek]

If your DM allows you use Investigation check against Sorcerer's Stealth. You still failed.

Again the stealth bonus of the sorcerer is a mere data in the adventure you post.
The Dm who run the adventure have to authority to use any DC appropriate to fit player’s description of action.

 

[Hohige]

"I subtly cast x on the wizard"
DM: roll initiative.

It's that simple. It's exactly equivalent to if you try and stab the BBEG you're chatting with at the bar while they're monologuing.

They get a chance to beat your initiative. So does the wizard.

EZPZ

I'm hidden against the Wizards, casting subtly spells that doesn't have visual effects against the Wizard.
The Wizard cannot see or detect any sound or visual effect from my spells.

No Initiative.