D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Krachek]

I don’t want to enter on the rules debate here.
But all these shenanigans between high level character let me think of a DnD world completely silly. According to the OP the world is lead by a hidden unbeatable sorcerer, unless he has to face another sorcerer of equal level.... A dozen of sorcerers ( or wizard for other) competing against each other can produce various setting.

They may have no time and energy to spend on controlling anything other thing than their competitors.
Or they may use kingdom and empire into their wars making the world a complete chaos.
Or they may want to shutdown from the start any new Sorcerer or Wizard, whichever they consider a possible threat for them. That may lead to a single overwhelming character.
Or they may find a truce, spending time on the rest of the world, but usually such truce is broken in deadly war.

 

[Hohige]

I don’t want to enter on the rules debate here.
But all these shenanigans between high level character let me think of a DnD world completely silly. According to the OP the world is lead by a hidden unbeatable sorcerer, unless he has to face another sorcerer of equal level.... A dozen of sorcerers ( or wizard for other) competing against each other can produce various setting.

They may have no time and energy to spend on controlling anything other thing than their competitors.
Or they may use kingdom and empire into their wars making the world a complete chaos.
Or they may want to shutdown from the start any new Sorcerer or Wizard, whichever they consider a possible threat for them. That may lead to a single overwhelming character.
Or they may find a truce, spending time on the rest of the world, but usually such truce is broken in deadly war.

He is not creating a battle against the world.
First, he will incite hatred against the Wizards and the world will attack them, while the Sorcerer eliminates the Wizards one by one.
Isolating them, including from other wizards. The best tactic is: Separate, weaken and eliminate.
Nobody cares about Wizards with 8 Cha.

 

[Krachek]

He is not creating a battle against the world.
First, he will incite hatred against the Wizards and the world will attack them, while the Sorcerer eliminates the Wizards one by one.
Isolating them, including from other wizards. The best tactic is: Separate, weaken and eliminate.
Nobody cares about Wizards with 8 Cha.

I understand that you can’t imagine a competitor for your sorcerer even if it’s another sorcerer. Take a breath, face a rash truth, other players may play sorcerer too!

 

[James Harrison2]

It's cool... I think I like that you've designed a character that has a goal and tries to do something. Though not all wizards are cha 8!

Does he succeed before the Rogue* shows him the error of his ways though? ;-)

But yes it is all quite silly, and not really how actual play is - but it was a fun thought experiment.

(*I really dig that rogue, super cool way to beat the sorcerer in the end...However I think the true winner is the humble trader that now gets to sell limited edition stone chickens!)

 

[Hohige]

I understand that you can’t imagine a competitor for your sorcerer even if it’s another sorcerer. Take a breath, face a rash truth, other players may play sorcerer too!

I don't see why Sorcerers help Wizards. They are natural enemies. But the fall of Bastion would only be possible with a War of Sorcerers. But I don't think Sorcerers would protect Wizards.

 

[Hohige]

It's cool... I think I like that you've designed a character that has a goal and tries to do something. Though not all wizards are cha 8!

Does he succeed before the Rogue* shows him the error of his ways though? ;-)

But yes it is all quite silly, and not really how actual play is - but it was a fun thought experiment.

(*I really dig that rogue, super cool way to beat the sorcerer in the end...However I think the true winner is the humble trader that now gets to sell limited edition stone chickens!)

What rogue? The one who became Stone Chicken? HAhaha What a suicidal guy.

 

[Hohige]

That is nonsense. Otherwise people could see through all your spells with an arcana check? (Destroying a few iterations of your sorcerer)... I'm pretty sure this rogue has you

Do you really think the Sorcerer would fall into an illusion or any magical trap (Or were you thinking that Bastion would have no defenses against Glyph of Warding or Symbol Spell?)?
Subtle Skill Empowerment. (Investigation) + Trance of Order.
Now the Sorcerer has + 22 ~ 32 Investigation check against magical traps and illusions that fail automatically.
Also the Sorcerer has acess to True Seeming spell.

Unfortunelly, The Rogue is an Stone Chicken trying to trick the mighty Sorcerer.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Do you really think the Sorcerer would fall into an illusion or any magical trap (Or were you thinking that Bastion would have no defenses against Glyph of Warding or Symbol Spell?)?

Certainly using its 845th Wish of the day.

Subtle Skill Empowerment. (Investigation) + Trance of Order.

Skill Empowerment: "You must choose a skill in which the target is proficient and that isn’t already benefiting from an effect, such as Expertise, that doubles its proficiency bonus. "

Nonwithstanding the fact that the Lazy One cannot be proficient in Investigation given ALL the skills you claimed he was already proficient in.

Also the Sorcerer has acess to True Seeming spell.

WIth all the time he can't be targetted by a Divination spell (due to permanent Nondetection), he certainly can't cast True Seeing on himself or See Invisibility of himself.

Basically, when cheating, the Sorcerer can overcome a lot of threat. So can a level 1 commoner. Cheating is a powerful tool, but banned at most tables. Unfortunately for the Sorcerer who rely on it a lot.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

Certainly using its 845th Wish of the day.
.........

Basically, when cheating, the Sorcerer can overcome a lot of threat. So can a level 1 commoner. Cheating is a powerful tool, but banned at most tables. Unfortunately for the Sorcerer who rely on it a lot.

I have sat down and tried to figure out the process this sorcerer goes through each day to make himself unbeatable and as far as I can tell, there is no possible way. He would have to be able to cast Wish something like 4 times per day, plus be able to keep 3 or 4 concentration spells going at the same time. He thinks he only has to roll Stealth one per day, he can hide in the open in broad daylight, when everyone is looking right at him. He is also under the impression that if he refuses to roll initiative, no one else can do anything ever. And finally, he can keep his identity a secret while murdering high profile wizards and conducting a misinformation campaign against wizards in general.

For the last week I have been calling this a rigged game of Monopoly, I was mistaken, this is Cowboys and Indians as played by 8 year olds.

Anyone other than the Sorcerer: I shot you, you are dead.
Sorcerer: Nu Uhh, you missed!

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

"I run Stealth once, and I keep my result until I am found", despite doing anything else including being in plain sight -- A Foggy Bottom Interlude, with a strong helping of Calvinball.

On average, commoner's passive perception check is 10. On average, commoner's stealth check is +0. Every morning, when getting up, everyone in the world is spending 6 seconds to hide. On average, half of the world's population become undetectable to the rest of the world until they go to sleep. They can enter shops, open the cashier, take the money. It's not like the shopper can spend an action doing a Search check, because at the same time he is occupied attending to a patron. Plus, unless the thief says "hi", he has no visual clue or auditory clue. Therefore, he doesn't roll initiative and can't take action. Hence most of the thief usually get out of the shop after having stolen the clothes of the shopkeeper. When the shopkeeper realize he's nude, he can try to do a Search action, but the thief has moved away.

Worse, regular house cats have +4 Stealth. That means that on average, 75% of cats are invisible to the general population, unless they attack.
In dim light, no commoner can even notice a pack of cats. No wonder people have faith in fey spirits: cat food is generally being eaten by unseen creatures.

Speaking of Animals, you'd say the mostly naked shopkeepers would put dogs into their shop to protect their goods and decency?
No way, your pack of hunting dogs has passive perception 13. They won't detect 35% of the general population, with no thief training, who hide for six seconds in the morning. They can't take a Search action because there is no visual cue of the commoner's presence! So, the commoner would roll daily, go to the shop. If the dog barks, buy a loaf of bread. If the dogs stays silent, you rolled high in the morning, let's plunder the bakery!

To the despair of shopkeepers, imagine the unskilled commoner wants to really, really, steal his pants. On the morning, he'd ask his wife to spend six seconds on a Help action. Given that she would have to roll initative to take a Help action, of course, that means she would need to slap her husband first, but hey, the benefit of rolling on his Stealth check with advantage far outweighs a daily slapping! Now, he'd be undetectable on average 75% of the days! If he was from an urchin background, he'd be undetectable 90% of the time. That's why most people think street urchins are clumsy south of Candlekeep: those with more than 14 DEX are never ever seen by the non-heroic population. And they own many pairs of pants.