D&D 5E Rogues are Awesome. Is it the Tasha's Effect?

[Rockyroad]

Insightful fighting is a single bonus action, and it triggers sneak attack against that creature for a whole minute (10 rounds).

I'd be inclined to use IF till it stuck, and then move to using other abilities.

I've found that is good if I don't have another way of getting sneak attack but with steady aim I get advantage on attack which automatically grants sneak attack plus I have better chance to hit so unless the enemy is close I find I always use SA then fall back on IF if I have to move. Thing with SA there's no ability check roll like with IF or hiding. It just works.

 

[auburn2]

Double post

 

[auburn2]

Fair enough. Same here. Rogues in games I've been involved with contribute just as much if not more to combat. Lots of things can change that of course such as how many rests you get between combat, nature of enemies and DM rulings.

Rogues are pretty awesome in combat if you take advantage of their mobility. They can't deal as much raw damage as other classes, but they are better at controling the battlefield and avoiding getting hit. Being able to disengage and dash as a BA means they will not usually be in melee if they don't want to be in melee. The movement often allows them to avoid missile and spell attacks too - go behind a wall, come out and shoot, go back behind the wall.

Enemies can counter that with ready action and other such things, but even if they do you are still throwing them off their game and hurting them in terms of action economy.

With expertise in athletics they are usually very good at shove and grapple and other attacks other than damaging attacks.

 

[Ancalagon]

I played a sub-optimised standard human Thief (named Udit, sailor background).

D&D 5E - (RG) Vault of the Dracolich Basecamp

...High on a rocky cliff, covered in wispy alpine grass, lies the secret basecamp for the Wizard Imani's gathering forces, as he attempts to thwart the machinations of the Cult of the Dragon and their horrific ally, the Dracolich Dretchroyaster. A small, but expensive-looking pavillion tent...

www.enworld.org

It didn't matter if I made this character "wrong". He was super fun, and very effective. Once hasted, I climbed down 180 feet in a single round. I think if I was to re-do it, I would do him as a scout, and take find familiar as the first level spell from Magic adept.

So to answer your question - this is not a Tasha's effect. Rogues were great from the get-go.

 

[Mistwell]

Or drag it down a lot.

Yes, they apply extra damage on a hit. But they are not an Attack action so they do not enable TWF. So if you miss, you don't have a second chance to apply Sneak Attack. (If you hit, use your Bonus Action some other way.)

TWF also allows a Swashbuckler to apply Fancy Footwork to a second target, with GFB/BB wouldn't.

I think advantage means on average the GFB/BB user does more damage than the TWF. Which a Familiar and Steady Aim both provide.

Every comparison I've seen of TWF vs GFB/BB shows beyond the first couple levels the GFB/BB will do more damage on average.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think advantage means on average the GFB/BB user does more damage than the TWF. Which a Familiar and Steady Aim both provide.

Every comparison I've seen of TWF vs GFB/BB shows beyond the first couple levels the GFB/BB will do more damage on average.

White room it does, in real game you get two attempts to get sneak attack.

New Tasha's rule buffs the non dual wielding rogue.

 

[Ancalagon]

That's my theory as well. Take a hit and get in there.

Only snipe if you've been hurt bad.

IMO. That the rogue gets attacked some actually benefits the party more than having all the damage concentrated on the fighter.

I'm in agreement here too. I did that a few times as a rogue (thief) to relieve pressure from the tank.

 

[Ancalagon]

I'm wondering, though, is it only the Arcane Trickster who's this easy/crazy good?

I've played a Thief rogue up to level 9 and have also tried out an Inquisitive. I enjoy the characters very much and feel like I keep up with the group, but I'm not dazzled by my own damage or anything like that.

I think that the AT is still "king of the rogues", power and utility wise...

 

[Ancalagon]

They're quite handy in non-combat situations, do they need to be better than most at combat as well?

I don't think so. especially if you consider combat as war.

Yes, the rogue will be doing decent damage during the fight. But the rogue can help set up a killer ambush that could turn a deadly fight into an easy one.... that's worth way more than a few more HP of damage.

 

[Mistwell]

TWF is still optimal over Aim (presuming another way to attain SA) from a raw DPR perspective.

Advantage is two rolls to hit, and both could hit but you only get SA+Weapon

Two attacks is just as likely to hit as one attack with Advantage, but also has the possibility of both weapons hitting (for extra weapon damage).

GFB/ BB picks up the slack with Aim, however again, it uses movement and your bonus action (and not many Rogues want to just sit there in melee getting wailed on, uncanny dodge or no, generally tending to 'yo-yo' in and out letting the Fighter cop the attacks).

I am pretty sure it is not optimal for the overwhelming majority of levels. I've seen numerous charts of the damage comparison, and GFB/BB beat TWF for almost all the levels, due to scaling of the cantrips damage. I guess I need to dig one of those charts up, since you're the second person to make this claim.