D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Minigiant]

They produce top 4 numbers of adventurers. In a game of adventurers, that's plenty activity. There's no requirement for races to be industrious like ants.

And that makes no sense.

Why would halflings ever leave their ideal safe homes?

Why don't retired halfling adventurers encourage halfling to help the poor races outside who actually have...gasp.. problems?

This mentality doesn't make them human. It makes them alien. Even the country bumpkins who adore rural life enlist in war to defend the nation and donate to war efforts.

How can an iconic race who is supposed to be relatable be so passive. 5e halflings are neither active nor reactive. They are just there.

I would imagine halfling adventurers are similar. They only quest because the human, dwarf, and elf wish to go and the halfling wants to be with their friends. I can't see halflings taking initiative as their whole motive is sitting around and having fun with friends.

 

[Maxperson]

And that makes no sense.

Why would halflings ever leave their ideal safe homes?

Normal ones don't. Adventurous ones with wanderlust, intense curiosity, or just traits that buck the trend leave.

Why don't retired halfling adventurers encourage halfling to help the poor races outside who actually have...gasp.. problems?

That would be a bummer

This mentality doesn't make them human. It makes them alien. Even the country bumpkins who adore rural life enlist in war to defend the nation and donate to war efforts.

They aren't Human. They're Halflings. Why would they have a Human mentality

How can an iconic race who is supposed to be relatable be so passive. 5e halflings are neither active nor reactive. They are just there.

I would imagine halfling adventurers are similar. They only quest because the human, dwarf, and elf wish to go and the halfling wants to be with their friends. I can't see halflings taking initiative as their whole motive is sitting around and having fun with friends.

You imagine wrong. Halfling adventurers buck the trend and go out into the world.

 

[Minigiant]

That would be a bummer

Yeah. Silslo Saggins helps his friends save a human duchy from a lich. Then he goes home and says "(Censored) dem humans. Imma eat pie right here."

They aren't Human. They're Halflings. Why would they have a Human mentality

Because people keep saying they have the true human mentality.

You imagine wrong. Halfling adventurers buck the trend and go out into the world

Until they go home and never leave their village again. AD&D said long term adventuring for halflings was extremely rare even for Adventurer Halflings.

And wonderlust and curiousity doesn't make you slay dragons and liches.

Halflings are the 4th most number of adventurers because we want it that way. It doesn't mean the lore actually supports that idea. Dragonborn, tieflings, and human half hybrids have more reasons and stronger reasons to adventure than halflings.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah. Silslo Saggins helps his friends save a human duchy from a lich. Then he goes home and says "(Censored) dem humans. Imma eat pie right here."

Sounds about right.

Because people keep saying they have the true human mentality.

People say the Earth is flat, too.

Personally, I don't put much stock in what "people say." and look at things myself. Different races should and would have different mindsets. Halflings won't have a Human mentality, and neither will Dwarves and Elves.

Until they go home and never leave their village again. AD&D said long term adventuring for halflings was extremely rare even for Adventurer Halflings.

And wonderlust and curiousity doesn't make you slay dragons and liches.

AD&D was a long time ago and the lore has changed quite a bit. And wanderlust and curiosity can be powerful things that do result in dead dragons and liches. Or you could pick just about any reason for a Halfling to be adventuring. PCs are not limited by racial lore.

Halflings are the 4th most number of adventurers because we want it that way. It doesn't mean the lore actually supports that idea. Dragonborn, tieflings, and human half hybrids have more reasons and stronger reasons to adventure than halflings.

Dragonborn and Tieflings are rare. You may indeed have a much higher percentage of adventurers from those races, but 50% of 10 is far less than 1% of a million.

 

[Minigiant]

Dragonborn and Tieflings are rare. You may indeed have a much higher percentage of adventurers from those races, but 50% of 10 is far less than 1% of a million.

But then you get to the whole "how are you hiding all those 100 persons villages with a million halflings?"

And if you say "Well some live with the human, dwarves, and elves." Then you get a "You mean in the places that get attacked that halflings don't defend?"

That's why gaia worlds and utopia planets are in sci fi not fantasy.

AD&D was a long time ago and the lore has changed quite a bit. And wanderlust and curiosity can be powerful things that do result in dead dragons and liches. Or you could pick just about any reason for a Halfling to be adventuring. PCs are not limited by racial lore

5e went back and copied huge chunks of the old OD&D and AD&D lore and ignored most of the more sensible new 3e and 4e lore.

That's the crux.

 

[Maxperson]

But then you get to the whole "how are you hiding all those 100 persons villages with a million halflings?"

So you know that those were just example numbers, right? I wasn't saying that there are a million of them. There are also a lot of them living in towns and cities of other races.

And if you say "Well some live with the human, dwarves, and elves." Then you get a "You mean in the places that get attacked that halflings don't defend?"

Who said they never defended those places? I've been talking about the villages, since that's what the lore focuses on. Not only would they likely defend the cities they live in, but adventurers would be more common from those Halfling communities as they would be subjected to foreign ideas and influences that the rural villages are not.

5e went back and copied huge chunks of the old OD&D and AD&D lore and ignored most of the more sensible new 3e and 4e lore.

That's the crux.

It's really a mix.

 

[Oofta]

And if you say "Well some live with the human, dwarves, and elves." Then you get a "You mean in the places that get attacked that halflings don't defend?"

Directly contradicted by the lore "They can display remarkable ferocity when their friends, families, or communities are threatened."

Oh, and as far as why they adventure? That's also covered "Halflings usually set out on the adventurer’s path to defend their communities, support their friends, or explore a wide and wonder-filled world. For them, adventuring is less a career than an opportunity or sometimes a necessity."

I mean, you could twist dwarves around and make similar arguments. If clan is so all important, why would they ever leave the clan? Repeat for just about every race.

 

[Minigiant]

So you know that those were just example numbers, right? I wasn't saying that there are a million of them. There are also a lot of them living in towns and cities of other races.

Doesn't matter about the size but the ratios and porportions.

In order for the unadventerous to produce more adventurers than the adventurous , their numbers have to be large.
If there numbers are large, it's harder for them to be hidden.

Who said they never defended those places? I've been talking about the villages, since that's what the lore focuses on. Not only would they likely defend the cities they live in, but adventurers would be more common from those Halfling communities as they would be subjected to foreign ideas and influences that the rural villages are not.

Well the lore leans to the villages. So how are all these many villages invisible or allowed to exist with no diplomatic power.

It's really a mix.

I agree. My point is it leans moreand heavily on old lore that didn't make sense.
3e and 4e tied halflings more into their settings. 5e, backtracked on a lot of it, maybe to avoid backlash of 4e and 3e negative opinions.

 

[Minigiant]

Directly contradicted by the lore "They can display remarkable ferocity when their friends, families, or communities are threatened."

Yeah, after the fact.

5e defends their friends with 7 halfling farmboys.
33 and 4e do it with outriders, sling snipers, and big dogs.

Oh, and as far as why they adventure? That's also covered "Halflings usually set out on the adventurer’s path to defend their communities, support their friends, or explore a wide and wonder-filled world. For them, adventuring is less a career than an opportunity or sometimes a necessity."

I mean, you could twist dwarves around and make similar arguments. If clan is so all important, why would they ever leave the clan? Repeat for just about every race.

You keep getting lost in the the adventure talk.
I'm on how a race can be considered major and so isolationist and passive to the whole world around it.

Sure you can do the whole "Well I'm gonna do something" angle but by definition, that's the exception. It's only allowed to fly because of Tolkien fanboyism. Deep criticism and good adaption of dwarves, elves, and halflings is held back by adherence to those tropes. Unfortunately the best steps to ground the races were in the more controversial editions. Halfling were held back the most as they had the fewest notes.

 

[Chaosmancer]

There's no point in continuing this conversation. I've answered your questions a hundred times and I'm tired of the "gotchas".

Want a straight answer? Again? Halfling towns probably have as many guards and veterans as any other small communities in my campaign; in other words as many as are required for the storyline. You do whatever the **** you want in your campaign.

Congrats. You have agreed with my original point.

Halfling towns probably have as many guards and veterans as any other small community should in the campaign. No need to accuse me of favoritism or holding halflings to a higher standard. No need to demand percentages. That was my entire point. They should have as many guards and veterans as any other community in the campaign world.

That was all I was trying to get across.