D&D General Nobody likes an edition warrior.

[Emerikol]

The true irony of most of the 4e edition war talking points is that they exist in 5e without any problems. I honestly find that one of the funniest things in the world and so par for the course for so many things.

While I think this is perhaps an exaggeration, it still is somewhat true. It's why I decided to skip an edition of D&D for the first time. I've been in the OSR / PF world ever since. Mostly OSR as PF is too heavy a system for me.

I do think that it is funny so we agree on that.

 

[TwoSix]

The true irony of most of the 4e edition war talking points is that they exist in 5e without any problems. I honestly find that one of the funniest things in the world and so par for the course for so many things.

The biggest difference is that 5e powers look like older edition class abilities, even when they're obviously parallel to 4e abilities (I'm looking at cantrips here, specifically.) Not presenting the powers in boxes that look obviously technical helps, too. 4e should have doubled down on presenting a classic aesthetic to help sell its larger mechanical changes.

 

[GreyLord]

The big problem and unsolvable to salvage 4E was the class design/power and role structure. Everything came back to that IMHO.

People may not be able to articulate it's(4E is an MMO) what they're really saying is the hate the powers.

4E isn't an MMO but encounter powers kinda come from it. So yeah powers and class design.

And yet several classes and sub-classes in 5e have that design with in them but no one says much about it.

So...yeah...

 

[Zardnaar]

And yet several classes and sub-classes in 5e have that design with in them but no one says much about it.

So...yeah...

Not universally applied. Don't let me it don't pick it.

Stuff like that existing isn't a problem.

For example I didn't like Book of 9 Swords but I didn't care that it exists.

 

[Oofta]

Yeah, the difference with 4E vs 5E is in 4E every class had the AEDU structure. The fact that 5E borrowed things from pretty much every previous edition for certain pieces doesn't change much of anything.

You don't have to agree that the "feel" of 4E was fundamentally different, but for many people it felt like a different game altogether with imagery and terms borrowed from D&D.

 

[MichaelSomething]

The biggest difference is that 5e powers look like older edition class abilities, even when they're obviously parallel to 4e abilities (I'm looking at cantrips here, specifically.) Not presenting the powers in boxes that look obviously technical helps, too. 4e should have doubled down on presenting a classic aesthetic to help sell its larger mechanical changes.

So people would have liked 4E more if the powers were written in Gygaxian prose?

 

[jmartkdr2]

So people would have liked 4E more if the powers were written in Gygaxian prose?

Maybe not full-Gygax but 4e's presentation definitely made a lot of people either not play it or come into it with a negative mindset.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So people would have liked 4E more if the powers were written in Gygaxian prose?

I don't know, but ... maybe?

Look, 1e and 2e are basically the same. Yet there are people who strongly prefer one or the other, despite the fact that (a very few rule tweaks aside and some slight name changes) the only major difference is the switch from Gygaxian sprawling prose to more codified Cook's more codified system.

Presentation matters. I know that there are people that did not like 4e's presentation ... not that the original sales job on it was great.

 

[billd91]

So people would have liked 4E more if the powers were written in Gygaxian prose?

No. It's not just the presentation. The 5e classes may incorporate some aspects of the AEDU structure, but there are differences, particularly in who gets what parts of the AEDU structure and why.

 

[Oofta]

The issues I had with 4E had little or nothing to do with presentation. It was the concept that everyone (to me) had supernatural abilities, everyone followed the exact same AEDU structure.

From what I read, that wasn't the intent. Only wizards were supposed to have an AEDU structure but due to deadlines they had to get something out.