D&D 5E Blind Characters in 5e

[Jaeger]

"When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see."

"...can hear.." being the operative words here. What a PC can hear and distinguish in combat is something more than only disadvantage.

You can attack creatures outside your blindsight radius just fine (at disadvantage) unless that creature takes the Hide action and is successful.

Not "just fine" at all.

You have to either guess their location, or "hear" a target to have a location to shoot at.

5e does not define what it means to "hear" a target. Certainly not what it means to "hear" an individual target in all the noise and chaos of combat.

So common sense must rule the day.

the game defaults to you knowing (roughly) the location of all nearby creatures.

The rules say nothing that explicit. That is an assumption.

You could certainly hear them around you. (To your left, right, in front, etc...) But why would you assume the PC's can pick individuals out of a group without a perception check?

Why would you assume a free form of echolocation for all PC's races and classes?

Because that is the fundamental assumption being made.

I agree that a PC can use their hearing to try and identify an individual target - as opposed to just guessing.

But in combat you are looking at the PC using one of their actions to make a Wisdom (Perception) check to locate an individual target first.

There has to be a check made to hear/locate a target if the player does not want to guess. Especially in the noise and confusion of combat. Otherwise you just handed all your players a form of echolocation.

Assuming a form of echolocation beyond the blindsight radius is outrageously silly.

Is that really how people have been ruling things?


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[Flamestrike]

"...can hear.." being the operative words here. What a PC can hear and distinguish in combat is something more than only disadvantage.




Not "just fine" at all.

You have to either guess their location, or "hear" a target to have a location to shoot at.

5e does not define what it means to "hear" a target. Certainly not what it means to "hear" an individual target in all the noise and chaos of combat.

So common sense must rule the day.




The rules say nothing that explicit. That is an assumption.

You could certainly hear them around you. (To your left, right, in front, etc...) But why would you assume the PC's can pick individuals out of a group without a perception check?

Why would you assume a free form of echolocation for all PC's races and classes?

Because that is the fundamental assumption being made.

I agree that a PC can use their hearing to try and identify an individual target - as opposed to just guessing.

But in combat you are looking at the PC using one of their actions to make a Wisdom (Perception) check to locate an individual target first.

There has to be a check made to hear/locate a target if the player does not want to guess. Especially in the noise and confusion of combat. Otherwise you just handed all your players a form of echolocation.

Assuming a form of echolocation beyond the blindsight radius is outrageously silly.

Is that really how people have been ruling things?


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No, none of what you have posted is true by RAW or RAI.

James Haeck on D&D Writing | Dungeons & Dragons

Follow the link, listen to the podcast and come back and discuss when you've done so. It's an interview with JC where he discusses the rules.

To summarize, an unseen creature (invisible, in darkness, you're blind etc) can be attacked normally by any nearby creature (at disadvantage) unless they are also hidden.

In order to be hidden while unseen, they have to take the Hide action, and succeed in a Stealth check vs your passive perception.

If successful, you cant attack them at all, unless a lucky guess, or they reveal themselves (by making an attack, loud noise etc).

Google it. Then come back once you understand the rules.

 

[auburn2]

I've been thinking Blind Drow Swordsman.

Despite being blind I would keep the sunlight sensitivity for this race as well as Duergar. There is no reason that would not be the case just because he is blind.

If I was DM I would let a player get rid of sunlight sensitivty only for a Drow only if they used the custom lineage.

 

[auburn2]

But being Blind can be a Flaw. When your Flaw causes you a problem your DM should give you Inspiration. Next round you spend that Inspiration to cancel your Disadvantage. Your Flaw is still causing you a problem because if you were not blind you would now have Advantage. Your DM should grant you Inspiration again. Repeat....

Thus it's only going to be a net problem in Round 1 of the fight.

I have been playing 5E for 5 years and I have seen inspiration given about 5 times at my table. You are suggesting inspiration every turn?

 

[auburn2]

5e does not define what it means to "hear" a target. Certainly not what it means to "hear" an individual target in all the noise and chaos of combat.

Absolutely it does. RAW, hidden means [an individual target] is unseen and unheard. If an individual target is not "hidden" it is not unseen and unheard. If it is unseen because of invisibility or blindness or other complete obscuration then it is still heard unless it takes an action to hide.

As such RAW, a blinded character will know the location of all individual combatants who are not hidden in combat. Barring the hide action, the only way he wouldn't is if someone cast silence or deafened the character as well. In that case all combatants would be both unseen (blinded) and unheard (deafened) and would be "hidden", even if they did not take the hide action.

 

[Jaeger]

As such RAW, a blinded character will know the location of all individual combatants who are not hidden in combat.

That is an extremely generous interpretation of a blinded person "hearing" an opponent in combat.

You are not only giving them the general area (which would be fine) but an exact targetable location!

Free echolocation for all!

Follow the link, listen to the podcast and come back and discuss when you've done so. It's an interview with JC where he discusses the rules.
... James Haeck on D&D Writing | Dungeons & Dragons
Google it. Then come back once you understand the rules.

No need to google. Listened.

He said: 29:31 "We assume that, it is also perfectly in keeping with the rules for a group to assume that unless a person hides people generally know where a person is in combat."

Perkins should have put those assumptions in the rules. Because that is a pretty big deal!

He didn't. No such exact phrasing exists.

So I made my own interpretation based on the written text as-is.

I now therefore declare the following:

"Hear ye, hear ye!

Being unaware of writers assumptions that they did not put in the rules, and going only by the written text; I made my own ruling, based on personal experience of having run games for many years.

Being confident in my own ruling, I therefore felt no need, or even thought of "googling" online for further clarification on the issue."

Just assuming free echolocation for all never occurred to me.

Because that would be stupid.

However, I readily concede: that people in general will default to what a designer of the game says he meant. And consider his pronouncements RAW.

So despite what I think of Perkins assumptions. As a designer his words carry weight, and no one will care what I think.


Otherwise, I will say that listening to that podcast was rather enlightening. I personally find it rather interesting that so many had issues making a common sense ruling on their own.

 

[Flamestrike]

Perkins should have put those assumptions in the rules. Because that is a pretty big deal!

He didn't. No such exact phrasing exists.

No where is the opposite stated (people can be hidden without hiding).

In fact, seeing as there is expressly an action required to Hide, which requires you to be unseen to even attemptit, that invisibility expressly only ALLOWS hiding (it doesnt make you hidden by default) one can assume that the game is pretty clear that creatures are not hidden, unless they Hide (via the action).

Otherwise, I will say that listening to that podcast was rather enlightening. I personally find it rather interesting that so many had issues making a common sense ruling on their own.

Note that your target being unseen totally shuts down a ton of spells (no magic missile, hex, hunters mark, counterspell, charm person exclusion from spirit guardians etc etc etc), special abilities, opportunity attacks, the Dodge action and more.

It does all that, AND allows your target to attempt to Hide at will (as the action), AND imposes disadvantage on your wild swings/ shots in their general direction AND grants them advantage on attacks v you.

 

[Jaeger]

My views are irrelevant to what people view as RAW, as Perkins has spoken.

But why I interpreted it the way I did:

No where is the opposite stated (people can be hidden without hiding).

You are correct. It is my interpretation and ruling.

I can do that at my table.

Note that your target being unseen totally shuts down a ton of spells (no magic missile, hex, hunters mark, counterspell, charm person exclusion from spirit guardians etc etc etc), special abilities, opportunity attacks, the Dodge action and more.

Yes, because the PC is Blind.

Being Blind sucks. Feature, not bug.

Want to locate a target through "hearing" ?

Perception check. No free echolocation.

Like I noted in a previous post, giving them the general area someone is in with just "hearing" would be fine. But unless they have an ability that gives them some form of echolocation out to where the enemy is; perception check.

But how I rule things in my game is irrelevant to your game.

 

[Flamestrike]

But how I rule things in my game is irrelevant to your game.

And irrelevant to how the rules are supposed to work.

 

[auburn2]

That is an extremely generous interpretation of a blinded person "hearing" an opponent in combat.

You are not only giving them the general area (which would be fine) but an exact targetable location!

Free echolocation for all!

The targetable location is a 5x5 area, which is pretty general and that does not eliminate disadvantage.

Echolocation is essentially blindsight, which means there would be no disadvantage.

Further there are two conditions to consider as these would explicitly apply to this situation:
1. Invisible - an invisible opponent can not be seen, yet nothing in the description of invisible states an invisible creature can not be targeted in combat.

2. blinded - a blinded creature can't see, but nothing in the description states that a blinded creature can't target enemies.