D&D 5E Sword & Sorcery / Low Magic

[Laurefindel]

It depends a lot on the race and why they want it: if you want to play a dragonborn for the theme (and resistance), then 'dragon clan' works. If you want to play it for the look - that's a lot tougher (and possibly not very S&S.)

Yes, for most S&S settings I would assume that all reskined races would essentially be human (possibly with "exotic" ethnicity such as Atlantean or Melnibonean), although I wouldn't rule out the possible "lizard-people" of sort.

I wouldn't even mind a "small" race as a 5'8" human. Looking at myself, I'd probably fit in that category. I don't think I could wrestle a really big guy despite the fact that I'm not weak; I just don't have the body mass. And I'd probably be much more efficient with a lighter sword than a heavy two-handed axe that weigh 20% of my weight. I can chop wood just fine, but if I were attacked, I'd prefer the hatchet.

 

[Greg Benage]

I would love to see more products where magic is "opt-in" and progression based rather than a defining feature at character creation.

Like a feat/ASI progression tree kind of thing?

That's what I did when I ran Primeval Thule. Worked well. I limited the amount of magic quite a bit, so the spellcasting progression of someone with all three feats was 4/2/1. OTOH, I allowed characters with the Sorcerer feat to attempt rituals to cast spells of a higher level than their slots, with some risk.

Posting the feats in case it's useful to someone.

Magic Initiate: Prerequisite: Intelligence 13. You learn two cantrips and one 1st-level spell, and you gain one 1st-level spell slot. Your spellcasting ability modifier is Intelligence. You may choose your spells known from any spell list or combination of spell lists. For example, you could choose guidance, shillelagh and hex. Spells must be thematically appropriate to a sword-and-sorcery campaign. As a rule of thumb, most abjuration, enchantment, illusion, and necromancy spells are in; splashy evocation and conjuration spells are out. It’s possible we could “refluff” some spells that would otherwise be a bad fit. For example, magic missile could be reworked as agonizing pain, which simply inflicts necrotic damage in the specified amount upon the target of the spell. When in doubt, just ask. When you take this feat, you also become eligible for the next feat in the spellcasting feat chain (see Magic Adept, below).

Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Initiate. Your exploration of the dark arts is progressing nicely. You gain the following benefits:

• You learn one cantrip, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell, and you gain two 1st- and one 2nd-level spell slot.
• You gain the ritual spellcasting feature, allowing you to cast any known spell that has the ritual tag without expending a spell slot.
• You can use magic items restricted to any spellcasting class, though these items are exceedingly rare in Primeval Thule.

Sorcerer
Prerequisite: Magic Adept. Your mastery of things Man was not meant to know is nearly complete.

• You learn one cantrip, one 1st-level spell, one 2nd-level spell, and one 3rd-level spell, and you gain one 1st-, one 2nd-, and one 3rd-level spell slot.
• You can learn new spells from scrolls, grimoires, and similar sources.
• You can learn and cast spells with the ritual tag of a level for which you do not have spell slots. To perform such a ritual, you must make a sacrifice unique to each ritual spell, and you must make an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell level to complete the ritual successfully. Finally, you must make a Madness check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell level or gain one affliction from the Madness Table.

 

[Dioltach]

I might just steal these for my E6 campaign.

 

[Jaegermonstrous]

I'm working on a low-magic campaign setting right now, and have been having a lot of the same discussions going on in this thread. In the world I'm building, magic was more plentiful at one time, but due to plot reasons the amount of magic available has lessened - like an aquifer that's been drained.
AiME has been a great resource for a no-magic campaign, but I've also found a lot of interesting stuff in the way the Witcher RPG handles casters; instead of limiting outright the number of spells they can cast at a time, spellcasters in the Witcher have to worry about drawing on more power than they can physically handle. Draw too much, cast too many spells, and they start taking damage and making save throws. It's an idea I'm still playing around with, but it's something I'm considering very heavily. It would of course have to be adapted, since the Witcher RPG uses a d12 system.
I haven't solidified everything I'm going to do for the setting yet, so take all of these changes with the requisite grains of salt. These are all just things I've been considering using in the final setting. Some of this is mechanics, but I think a good portion of it can also be achieved with how NPCs react to magic and how many resources are available for casters.

• Limiting the number of spellcasting classes; right now I'm working with bard, cleric, druid, and wizard. This has more to do with my personal class preference than any mechanical advantages.
• Remove magic from barbarians, rangers, and rogues. UA has a good resource for non-magical rangers.
• Move paladin into a subclass of cleric, where players can choose to be a sword-and-board cleric with limited spellcasting, or play a more stereotypical healer with fewer martial abilities.
• Halve the number of spell slots (rounded down) available to all casters, limit 1 per spell level
• To keep casters from being too squishy, allow for a bit of martial proficiencies. I'm thinking Lythande of the Blue Star in this model, someone whose primary focus is magic, but who's also no slouch when it comes to fighting.
• Require spell components instead of spell focus, and put a cap on how many uses a component pouch has. Right now I'm allowing 10 uses, but also allowing for casters to forage for easily replaceable components.
• Most magic items are simply not available, and certainly can't be found for sale.
• I'm also considering using the 5e DMG's rules for gritty healing, where a short rest is a night's rest and a long rest is a week. I also like AiME's approach to this in their journey mechanic.
• On the worldbuilding side, I'm keeping magic in the world very limited. Most NPCs will never have seen magic in their lives, much less anything on the scale of what the PCs may eventually be able to wield. As a result, most NPCs will react with disbelief, suspicion, or fear if the PCs use magic in an overt way around them. Magic schools are tiny things, perhaps one low-level wizard to a handful of students, or a druid circle composed of four people. Magic is available - at a significant cost - to the very wealthy, but even that isn't what it used to be. Old records speak of great deeds of magic done thousands of years ago, but in much the same way we treat that as mythology in our world, so do most people in this world. Magical healing at temples just isn't available most of time - much less raising the dead, and even basic healing potions are something you'd only find in large cities at fancy-shmancy boutiques for the ultra-rich.
• I really like the suggestion @Ath-kethin made about allowing the PCs to brew Keoghtom's Ointment instead of healing potions, and I'm definitely taking notes on that.

I'm aware that this could probably be more easily done using a different RPG system, like the Witcher, or Savage Lands, etc etc. D&D 5e is just what I started with and what I'm most familiar with. My goal is actually to build something that can be easily adapted for other RPG systems, but that's a personal thing.

 

[Laurefindel]

I'm working on a low-magic campaign setting right now, and have been having a lot of the same discussions going on in this thread. In the world I'm building, magic was more plentiful at one time, but due to plot reasons the amount of magic available has lessened - like an aquifer that's been drained.
AiME has been a great resource for a no-magic campaign, but I've also found a lot of interesting stuff in the way the Witcher RPG handles casters; instead of limiting outright the number of spells they can cast at a time, spellcasters in the Witcher have to worry about drawing on more power than they can physically handle. Draw too much, cast too many spells, and they start taking damage and making save throws. It's an idea I'm still playing around with, but it's something I'm considering very heavily. It would of course have to be adapted, since the Witcher RPG uses a d12 system.
I haven't solidified everything I'm going to do for the setting yet, so take all of these changes with the requisite grains of salt. These are all just things I've been considering using in the final setting. Some of this is mechanics, but I think a good portion of it can also be achieved with how NPCs react to magic and how many resources are available for casters.

• Limiting the number of spellcasting classes; right now I'm working with bard, cleric, druid, and wizard. This has more to do with my personal class preference than any mechanical advantages.
• Remove magic from barbarians, rangers, and rogues. UA has a good resource for non-magical rangers.
• Move paladin into a subclass of cleric, where players can choose to be a sword-and-board cleric with limited spellcasting, or play a more stereotypical healer with fewer martial abilities.
• Halve the number of spell slots (rounded down) available to all casters, limit 1 per spell level
• To keep casters from being too squishy, allow for a bit of martial proficiencies. I'm thinking Lythande of the Blue Star in this model, someone whose primary focus is magic, but who's also no slouch when it comes to fighting.
• Require spell components instead of spell focus, and put a cap on how many uses a component pouch has. Right now I'm allowing 10 uses, but also allowing for casters to forage for easily replaceable components.
• Most magic items are simply not available, and certainly can't be found for sale.
• I'm also considering using the 5e DMG's rules for gritty healing, where a short rest is a night's rest and a long rest is a week. I also like AiME's approach to this in their journey mechanic.
• On the worldbuilding side, I'm keeping magic in the world very limited. Most NPCs will never have seen magic in their lives, much less anything on the scale of what the PCs may eventually be able to wield. As a result, most NPCs will react with disbelief, suspicion, or fear if the PCs use magic in an overt way around them. Magic schools are tiny things, perhaps one low-level wizard to a handful of students, or a druid circle composed of four people. Magic is available - at a significant cost - to the very wealthy, but even that isn't what it used to be. Old records speak of great deeds of magic done thousands of years ago, but in much the same way we treat that as mythology in our world, so do most people in this world. Magical healing at temples just isn't available most of time - much less raising the dead, and even basic healing potions are something you'd only find in large cities at fancy-shmancy boutiques for the ultra-rich.
• I really like the suggestion @Ath-kethin made about allowing the PCs to brew Keoghtom's Ointment instead of healing potions, and I'm definitely taking notes on that.

I'm aware that this could probably be more easily done using a different RPG system, like the Witcher, or Savage Lands, etc etc. D&D 5e is just what I started with and what I'm most familiar with. My goal is actually to build something that can be easily adapted for other RPG systems, but that's a personal thing.

While Sword and Sorcery is typically low-magic, a low magic setting isn't necessarily Sword and Sorcery. As much as I like the 5e treatment of AiME, it doesn't quite fit the genre of Sword and Sorcery (but it is an excellent example of low magic 5e).

For a high-fantasy low-magic setting à la Middle Earth, a lot can be achieved with fluff, curated spell lists, and minor modifications. Many of the paladin and ranger's spells are class features by another name; one could easily imagine a mundane "casting" of Bless or Shield of Faith, and Hunter's Mark and Cure Wounds. Spell slots are just a mechanical construct justifying balance. The magic of some Barbarian can also be justified in a low-magic world. The Totem Warrior Barbarian makes a nice Beorn-type character, speaking to animals and sending their spirit to bears.

Gritty Realism really works wonder for a low-magic feel, forcing spellcasters to be sparse and cautious with their spells. Frustratingly so for many players actually, so be sure everybody is on the same page for that. It also makes the "magical cold war" much more believable, whereas high-level wizards don't go out of their tower much because if they do, they'll have to cast their spells and thus be vulnerable to rival wizards for a whole week etc, explaining why the world isn't run by spellcasters yet nobody dares to piss them off.

Lifting up all spells one casting time category (bonus action casting becomes 1-action casting, 1-action casting become 10-minute rituals etc) could also work well, although I never tried it in a game. It would devalue and cripple so many spells that the magic-game dynamics cannot be unaltered. Except for a few sorcerers, Fireball would never be used, in turn making room for longer-lasting, more subtle spells that low-magic settings often favour.

All that without messing with spell slots and proficiencies and whatnot, but it doesn't mean it makes it Sword and Sorcery.

[edit] not that messing-up with proficiencies and spell slots is a bad idea in itself; I don't mean to sound condescending.

 

[overgeeked]

While Sword and Sorcery is typically low-magic, a low magic setting isn't necessarily Sword and Sorcery. As much as I like the 5e treatment of AiME, it doesn't quite fit the genre of Sword and Sorcery (but it is an excellent example of low magic 5e).

For a high-fantasy low-magic setting à la Middle Earth, a lot can be achieved with fluff, curated spell lists, and minor modifications. Many of the paladin and ranger's spells are class features by another name; one could easily imagine a mundane "casting" of Bless or Shield of Faith, and Hunter's Mark and Cure Wounds. Spell slots are just a mechanical construct justifying balance. The magic of some Barbarian can also be justified in a low-magic world. The Totem Warrior Barbarian makes a nice Beorn-type character, speaking to animals and sending their spirit to bears.

Gritty Realism really works wonder for a low-magic feel, forcing spellcasters to be sparse and cautious with their spells. Frustratingly so for many players actually, so be sure everybody is on the same page for that. It also makes the "magical cold war" much more believable, whereas high-level wizards don't go out of their tower much because if they do, they'll have to cast their spells and thus be vulnerable to rival wizards for a whole week etc, explaining why the world isn't run by spellcasters yet nobody dares to piss them off.

Lifting up all spells one casting time category (bonus action casting becomes 1-action casting, 1-action casting become 10-minute rituals etc) could also work well, although I never tried it in a game. It would devalue and cripple so many spells that the magic-game dynamics cannot be unaltered. Except for a few sorcerers, Fireball would never be used, in turn making room for longer-lasting, more subtle spells that low-magic settings often favour.

All that without messing with spell slots and proficiencies and whatnot, but it doesn't mean it makes it Sword and Sorcery.

[edit] not that messing-up with proficiencies and spell slots is a bad idea in itself; I don't mean to sound condescending.

The more I think about what I'm going for the more I think something like a half-rest is needed. I don't like gritty realism's one-week long rest. That seems excessive. You do make a good point about magic cold war though. Something like a long rest cut in half, resource wise. It still takes eight hours to complete, but you get half of what a normal long rest provides. So all your short-rest resources return, any of your 1/long rest resources return, except spells. You get 1/2 of your hit points and 1/4 of your hit dice. But for spell slots you get 1/2 rounded up back. Or something.

 

[Stalker0]

Honestly I don't see the problem with having Barbarian + Fighter + Rogue only parties. There are still tons of character concepts you can do with those, especially if you allow multiclassing among the 3.

From there, a lot of good suggestions already thrown around. If you want a little magic, something like the magic adept feats I think are perfect, or perhaps something like allowing 1 level of caster multiclass for every 3 regular levels.

So you could have a Fighter 3 / Wizard 1, and a Fighter 6 / Wizard 2. That would mean that 2nd level spells are only seen by 10th level+ characters, which is still pretty low magic.

 

[Voadam]

If I was going for a Conan style game I would not make natural healing harder.

 

[dave2008]

I don't think it is possible to do with 5e. The system doesn't fit; like trying to mash a square peg in a round hole. I think if you want that option, it is best to just switch to a different system.

I disagree. Obviously, I don't know your version of Sword and Sorcery, but I feel we achieve a pretty good Conan vibe to our D&D games. It is actually very easy to do in 5e IMO.

Conan was the predominate fantasy I grew up with (more than LotR), so it has always influenced my D&D. We pretty much achieve that feel in any edition I've played (1e, 4e, & 5e).

 

[dave2008]

Why not restrict class, but allow archetypes that are ''caster-adjacents''
Fighter:
Brute (UA)
Battlemaster
Rune-knight

Is there a reason you didn't include the Champion and Samurai?