Falcon and winter solider

[hopeless]

The story might work better if Walker eventually understands what he's going through will besmirch both his country and the shield so gives up the shield voluntarily rather than forced to do so.

 

[Morrus]

The story might work better if Walker eventually understands what he's going through will besmirch both his country and the shield so gives up the shield voluntarily rather than forced to do so.

What story? What is he doing that besmerches his country? Fighting superpowered terrorists? Not putting up with attitude from b-list superheroes? What has this guy done wrong? Looked a bit smarmy?

I’m sure that’s what happens in the future, because you guys are telling me that’s what happens in the comics. But on-screen? He’s fine. He has been given a job by America and he’s doing it.

 

[Umbran]

Indeed. Tropes are like terms like climax, inciting incident, denouement. They are jargon about the craft and design patterns of story telling.

I think maybe you're using a technical definition that isn't so widely shared. I think for these purposes, tropes are also themes and literary devices and stereotypes. The hero "riding off into the sunset" is a trope of Western stories, for example. The "manic pixie dream girl" is a trope. That your movie climax has your heroes firing at a large object hanging in the sky is a trope. The "slow-motion team walking abreast" shot is a trope that Guardians of the Galaxy broke slightly for effect, and so on.

 

[Stalker0]

Oh, definitely. And all the while I am saying that the guy's probably bad, I'm half-hoping they defy that expectation in some interesting way.

That's my hope as well, would be a lot more interesting than if Walker just turns heel and then we got to get him.

The super soldier thing will be really interesting, because how they go about it could have long reaching consequences for the MCU. With the various Winter Soldiers, we at least got the idea that the serum had flaws and it took a long time to bring those soldiers up and about (aka some of the flashback scenes we see in Civil War). But if there is now a better serum out there (whether its now the original or simply a refined version of the winter soldier one or a brand new one), that has a lot of possible consequences.

If people can now "buy superpowers", it opens up a whole new ballgame.


Oh and on the note about Walker and guns, Cap has used a gun, and in CA II, when he gets on that boat....many of the people he takes out he flat out kills. CA is a nice guy....but he's also a soldier and a warrior, and you do not want to be his enemy.

 

[Umbran]

The story might work better if Walker eventually understands what he's going through will besmirch both his country and the shield so gives up the shield voluntarily rather than forced to do so.

In the original comics, John Walker actually has to talk Steve Rogers into taking the shield back. I think the analogous thing would be for Walker to realize that it will be better if Sam has the shield.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

What story? What is he doing that besmerches his country? Fighting superpowered terrorists? Not putting up with attitude from b-list superheroes? What has this guy done wrong? Looked a bit smarmy?

I’m sure that’s what happens in the future, because you guys are telling me that’s what happens in the comics. But on-screen? He’s fine. He has been given a job by America and he’s doing it.

I have never read those comics, so I am just reading what is being talked about in the reviews of each episode. Instead, I am going on how the actor is portraying him as a smug ass, who is used to getting his way, and who does not like being told no. The actor is doing a good job at showing us that John is not like Steve. But then, all the actors on this show, and on WandaVision, have done great jobs at portraying their characters. Marvel has done an amazing job in the casting department so far.

 

[Morrus]

I am just reading what is being talked about in the reviews of each episode.

Got it. Different conversations.

 

[Umbran]

...I am going on how the actor is portraying him as a smug ass, who is used to getting his way, and who does not like being told no.

I took some time to watch the episode again, with some effort to set aside preconceptions, and watch what he's actually doing. And I still agree - when he talks with Bucky and Sam (and Bucky's therapist) he has a lot of... entitlement is the best word I have for it. He still couches it in friendly terms, but the presumption is still there. And I agree, it is well acted.

 

[Rune]

I’ve not really seen that in him.

I’m sure. If it’s a character from a comic book that you’re familiar with, and you say that’s the character, I believe you, and I’m sure that’s where it will go. For me he’s a brand new character and he seems fine if a bit out of his depth.

I guess foreknowledge can alter your perception of a character’s portrayal.

I guess it might, but I’m not personally applying any. Everything I’m talking about is stuff they’ve put on screen. It is nuanced and sometimes subtle, of course (thus, not blatantly obvious, and, thus, disputable). But the other thing it has been is consistent.

His interactions reflect it and his tactics reflect it (remember, he targets civilians – his words). I don’t think he means to be a bully. He simply does not have the innate respect for people that his predecessor had and consequently seems to have no qualms about using his power to control those who lack it.

 

[Morrus]

Everything I’m talking about is stuff they’ve put on screen. It is nuanced and sometimes subtle, of course (thus, not blatantly obvious, and, thus, disputable).

I guess I just didn't get it then.