Falcon and winter solider

[hopeless]

The Power Broker threatening her specifically?
Unlikely, wasn't they warned they were about to be raided?

 

[Janx]

I’ve not really seen that in him.

I’m sure. If it’s a character from a comic book that you’re familiar with, and you say that’s the character, I believe you, and I’m sure that’s where it will go. For me he’s a brand new character and he seems fine if a bit out of his depth.

I guess foreknowledge can alter your perception of a character’s portrayal.

That's a quibble I have with folks mining the comics for clues in the show. I mean, yes, we know when somebody in the show has the same name from the comics, it'll means something. But it kinda takes the air out of the room when they go on and on about how it'll be.

How about we see what Isaiah means in the MCU. Yeah, we coulda guessed this new Captain America might be trouble, we don't need to know he became US Agent, etc.

 

[Umbran]

Tropes aren’t real. They are arbitrary categories whose purpose is only a shorthand that allows the audience to assume they understand a work of art without actually looking closely at it.

Tropes are meta-language, a shorthand that the artist can use to quickly give an audience understanding and expectations, that they can then also subvert for effect. They are totally a real thing, as much as any concept (and thus, any art) is real, because art exists in a context of other art, and artists borrow elements from each other constantly. Art exists in genres with shared elements - those shared elements are tropes.

 

[Staffan]

I'm not sure they've outright made it clear . . . . but the Flag-Smashers stole super-serum from the Power Broker to gain their super-powers, and he's not happy with them! That's who they were fleeing from in Episode 2.

I don't know where I got the impression, but I thought it was more that they had gotten it from the Power Broker and then refused to pay rather than that they stole it in the first place. That's cutting some hairs mighty thin, though.

 

[Umbran]

How are we overlooking it if it hasn't happened?

We don't know whether Walker will ever receive any version of the super soldier serum. We don't know whether the Flag Smashers gain their enhanced abilities from a super soldier serum or from some other source. And if they are using some version of that serum, we don't know whether it still functions the same way as Dr Erskine's original formula, or is a heavily modified version.

Sam and Bucky fight the Flag Smashers, and wonder how they got their powers, but have no leads. They go to see Isaiah Bradley, and he remarks on how he was held by "your people" (meaning Hydra) and lots of samples taken - presumably in efforts to recreate the serum. Sam and Bucky then tell us they are going to look for Zemo to follow that lead.

If the Flag Smashers aren't using something akin to a super-soldier serum, then this is a red herring. The show is only six episodes, I don't think they have time for red herrings. So, while we don't know it, it is a pretty reasonable expectation that it won't be something totally unrelated.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know where I got the impression, but I thought it was more that they had gotten it from the Power Broker and then refused to pay rather than that they stole it in the first place. That's cutting some hairs mighty thin, though.

I think it could be either way - though, I sure hope that truck was actually medical supplies, and not super-soldier serum, because otherwise.... that's a whole lot of implied super-soldiers that are coming out of that truck.

 

[Dire Bare]

I’ve not really seen that in him.

I’m sure. If it’s a character from a comic book that you’re familiar with, and you say that’s the character, I believe you, and I’m sure that’s where it will go. For me he’s a brand new character and he seems fine if a bit out of his depth.

I guess foreknowledge can alter your perception of a character’s portrayal.

I agree that Walker is out of his depth, as portrayed so far. But I'm also seeing his power plays too, and I'm not super familiar with the comics. What I'm enjoying about the character so far is that he's very fleshed out and given depth. It seems like he's being set up as an antagonist to Falcon and Bucky, but he's hardly a villain . . . at least so far.

While comic book nerds can gather clues about the new Captain America from his portrayal in the comics, it's important to remember that most comic book characters have been portrayed differently over the years. From what I've been reading on John Walker . . . . he's been a villain, a hero, and a misguided hero-antagonist at different times. How will the MCU John Walker shake out? It could go a number of different ways, and that's assuming they stick closely to one of his comics portrayals.

In the show, while I do think Walker is pulling power plays on Falcon and Buck . . . I also am a little irritated with their characters for not giving him much of a chance to prove himself. Irritated in a good way, I'm enjoying the story about flawed heroes!

 

[trappedslider]

I think Bucky was disappointed by Walker's answer about throwing himself on a grenade, but i also think he already knew what answer he would get.

 

[Umbran]

I’ve not really seen that in him.

It is a bit subtle, probably because they don't want John Walker to be a blatant mustache-twirling villain.

But, let us consider - if you want to help work on a life-risking mission, what do you do:
1) Say, "Hey, this is important, and I want it to succeed, can I come along?", or
2) Secretly track them across an ocean and jump in unannounced in the middle of a fight?

It looks like Walker could have approached Sam and Bucky at any time, but chose that time to do so. It looks contrived to prove how much Sam and Bucky need him. If his real concerns were success of the mission, and Sam and Bucky's welfare, he'd have allowed them to plan the operation including his ability. Assuming he's not a tactical idiot (and he's held the rank of Captain" before, so probably not) then it was calculated.

I guess foreknowledge can alter your perception of a character’s portrayal.

Oh, definitely. And all the while I am saying that the guy's probably bad, I'm half-hoping they defy that expectation in some interesting way.

But ultimately, "John Walker is a good guy, and Sam and Bucky are just wrong to reject him," probably isn't a great Sam and Bucky story.

 

[Janx]

Tropes are meta-language, a shorthand that the artist can use to quickly give an audience understanding and expectations, that they can then also subvert for effect. They are totally a real thing, as much as any concept (and thus, any art) is real, because art exists in a context of other art, and artists borrow elements from each other constantly. Art exists in genres with shared elements - those shared elements are tropes.

Indeed. Tropes are like terms like climax, inciting incident, denouement. They are jargon about the craft and design patterns of story telling. They exist because these conceptual constructs coalesced as effective models in stories. It is hard to make a good story without these pieces. And most good stories that were made with no knowledge of these constructs turn out to have these constructs in them.