Falcon and winter solider

[Tonguez]

And I think also Sam and Bucky both recognize that Walker misunderstands something fundamental about Steve Rogers. Walker thinks Rogers was driven because he has guts, but that’s not quite right.

Rogers really disliked bullies.

Walker, on the other hand, fundamentally is a bully.

So where on screen has Walker been shown to be fundamentally a bully?
I can understand that as audience we can assume things but personally I cant think of any specific scene or dialogue which shows bullying from Walker.

 

[Umbran]

So where on screen has Walker been shown to be fundamentally a bully?

On screen, it hasn't been seen yet. I expect it'll be coming along soon, but you are correct to note it hasn't been shown.

However, I will also accept that guys with long association with the military may have a gut reaction without knowing why. We, the viewers, may get the idea he's bad news because Bucky and Sam don't take to him. It isn't quite as good as having a dog growl at Walker, but...

 

[Rune]

So where on screen has Walker been shown to be fundamentally a bully?
I can understand that as audience we can assume things but personally I cant think of any specific scene or dialogue which shows bullying from Walker.

Every single interaction he’s had with Sam and Bucky (and Bucky’s therapist) has been a power play in which he has made it clear that he’s the guy with power and he will use that power to get what he wants. Literally every single interaction.

That is exactly the kind of thing Cap spent his career standing up against (in individuals and in systems). Because, as Rogers told us, he doesn’t like bullies.

But don’t take my word for it. Wait and see. Walker doesn’t respect people (not even Battlestar). His actions will reflect that.

 

[Umbran]

Every single interaction he’s had with Sam and Bucky (and Bucky’s therapist) has been a power play in which he has made it clear that he’s the guy with power and he will use that power to get what he wants. Literally every single interaction.

So far, he does it with a smile. But I think this is a fair reading.

 

[Tonguez]

Every single interaction he’s had with Sam and Bucky (and Bucky’s therapist) has been a power play in which he has made it clear that he’s the guy with power and he will use that power to get what he wants. Literally every single interaction.

That is exactly the kind of thing Cap spent his career standing up against (in individuals and in systems). Because, as Rogers told us, he doesn’t like bullies.

But don’t take my word for it. Wait and see. Walker doesn’t respect people (not even Battlestar). His actions will reflect that.

Thats certainly an interpretation, I agree that Walker is aware of his influence and has used it in various ways when interacting with Sam and Bucky. But my interpretation is a tad more generous. He wants to impress Sam and Bucky (due to their history with Cap) and while he may lack any subtlety his intentions so far have been to extend an olive branch and find a way for them all to work together.

But yes, if Marvel sticks to the trope its likely that Walker will do a heel turn, it would be more interesting imho if they subverted that, but unlikely given theres only 6 episodes)

NB Funny how by changing the word from powerplay to influence puts a different spin on things

 

[Rune]

Thats certainly an interpretation, I agree that Walker is aware of his influence and has used it in various ways when interacting with Sam and Bucky. But my interpretation is a tad more generous. He wants to impress Sam and Bucky (due to their history with Cap) and while he may lack any subtlety his intentions so far have been to extend an olive branch and find a way for them all to work together.

But yes, if Marvel sticks to the trope its likely that Walker will do a heel turn, it would be more interesting imho if they subverted that, but unlikely given theres only 6 episodes)

NB Funny how by changing the word from powerplay to influence puts a different spin on things

Tropes aren’t real. They are arbitrary categories whose purpose is only a shorthand that allows the audience to assume they understand a work of art without actually looking closely at it.

When one of the two of us is proven correct about Walker, it won’t be because the show followed or subverted a trope. It will be because it follow up on the character traits that it has already begun the work of presenting.

Assuming the characterization bears fruit, of course. Which, given the nuance with which these characters have been presented, I am assuming.

 

[Stalker0]

Tropes aren’t real.

Well...neither are tv shows, but we can still have real debates about them Tropes are a shorthand, allowing an audience to be informed about things with limited information, or in the case of subversion....can lead the audience to assume certain things that the author will twist to deliver a surprise.

But they are as real as any literary device or painting technique, it is the fact that people believe in them and understand them that gives them power and real form.

 

[Rune]

Well...neither are tv shows, but we can still have real debates about them Tropes are a shorthand, allowing an audience to be informed about things with limited information, or in the case of subversion....can lead the audience to assume certain things that the author will twist to deliver a surprise.

But they are as real as any literary device or painting technique, it is the fact that people believe in them and understand them that gives them power and real form.

Exactly. Tropes are an obstacle to actually understanding the art.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

yeah we do. we get old and fat, and out of shape. And most of us who left did so because we were tired of dealing with all the BS

I knew an old soldier who got old and fat. But he clearly had a high threshold for BS, since he was a school laboratory technician in a Liverpool comprehensive!

 

[hopeless]

I think we're overlooking something important.
When Steve received the super soldier serum he was told it amplifies what the person is from within.
In his case it turned a decent good man into an extraordinary one, in the case of the Red Skull it turned a sociopath into a terrifying monster.
Walker once he receives his version of the super soldier might not receive such an extreme reaction, but what might be niggling mannerisms now is going to become all the more obvious once he recovers from that change.
So I suspect what looks like him trying to deal with the fact he cannot fit the shoes of his predecessor once he receives the super soldier serum we're going to see either him recognising that fact or something far worse.
After all this series really should have been released AFTER the Black Widow movie

Spoiler

as that's where their version of the super soldier serum originates from...
Now are they going to retcon that?