D&D 5E Revising Classic Settings

[Snarf Zagyg]

Respectfully, you’re wrong about how slavery is presented in Dark Sun. It is very much chattel slavery. Though it is not based on race...except when it is...muls and half-giants...cough. Slaves are treated as nothing more than property and the children of slaves are also slaves, two of the key markers for chattel slavery.

To quote: “A person can become a slave in one of three ways: by being born a slave, by being captured during a war or other armed conflict, or by being sold into slavery for committing some crime or failing to pay one's debts.”

Further, the text repeatedly refers to slaves as being owned by and the property of their masters.

So the version I was talking about would not be a change to how Dark Sun presented slavery. It would be a continuation.

Respectfully, you didn't read what I wrote because you were too busy getting ready to argue. Here, let me repeat my summation with the appropriate bolding:

TLDR; I wouldn't change the nature of the Dark Sun setting vis-a-vis slavery to make it reflect American, instead of Roman, antecedents. All slavery is bad, but American race-based chattel slavery is, you know, really bad and doesn't make for a fun & diverse game. IMO.

At the point in time when you read, and can respond, to what I wrote, then you will understand that this was modeled after Roman slavery- by birth, by conquest, or by operation of law (debt or judgment).

Not American RACE-BASED chattel slavery.

 

[overgeeked]

Respectfully, you didn't read what I wrote because you were too busy getting ready to argue. Here, let me repeat my summation with the appropriate bolding:

TLDR; I wouldn't change the nature of the Dark Sun setting vis-a-vis slavery to make it reflect American, instead of Roman, antecedents. All slavery is bad, but American race-based chattel slavery is, you know, really bad and doesn't make for a fun & diverse game. IMO.

At the point in time when you read, and can respond, to what I wrote, then you will understand that this was modeled after Roman slavery- by birth, by conquest, or by operation of law (debt or judgment).

Not American RACE-BASED chattel slavery.

Again, muls and half-giants.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Again, muls and half-giants.

Half-giants are not BORN into slavery.

From the section on half-giants-
"Because of their limited intellectual capacity, half-giants do poorly in positions of power. They make short-lived templars and aristocrats, and most people are far too cautious with their wealth to buy anything that a half-giant craftsman makes. Therefore, even if born into freedom, the unfortunate members of this race find it difficult to make a living as an honest freeman ..." (emphasis mine)

Muls are always BRED as slaves, true (which, yes, is icky), because they are STERILE. They cannot breed. But they are not classified as slaves BECAUSE they are muls (race-based). So a new Dark Sun should probably rectify this instead of having the icky "order the births of as many as possible."

But again, this is the Roman system, not the American RACE-BASED CHATTEL SYSTEM.

First rule of holes- when you're in one, stop digging. I'm not sure why you find it necessary to both mis-read what I wrote, and then keep arguing with me. I don't like to argue.

 

[overgeeked]

Half-giants are not BORN into slavery.

From the section on half-giants-
"Because of their limited intellectual capacity, half-giants do poorly in positions of power. They make short-lived templars and aristocrats, and most people are far too cautious with their wealth to buy anything that a half-giant craftsman makes. Therefore, even if born into freedom, the unfortunate members of this race find it difficult to make a living as an honest freeman ..." (emphasis mine)

Muls are always BRED as slaves, true (which, yes, is icky), because they are STERILE. They cannot breed. But they are not classified as slaves BECAUSE they are muls (race-based). So a new Dark Sun should probably rectify this instead of having the icky "order the births of as many as possible."

But again, this is the Roman system, not the American RACE-BASED CHATTEL SYSTEM.

First rule of holes- when you're in one, stop digging. I'm not sure why you find it necessary to both mis-read what I wrote, and then keep arguing with me. I don't like to argue.

Slavery in Dark Sun is chattel slavery. Slavery in Dark Sun is also, at least in part, race based.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Slavery in Dark Sun is chattel slavery. Slavery in Dark Sun is also, at least in part, race based.

1. You are arguing with something I did not say.

2. Slavery is not, and has never been, race-based in Dark Sun.

 

[Faolyn]

Again, muls and half-giants.

Which can be gotten around by making them into a lineage of their own.

(Although, as a person with ovaries, I would be more than happy to have adventures taking the sex slavers and forced-breeding facilitators down; perhaps strangely, it's the men in my group who would likely be the most uncomfortable dealing with that issue.)

 

[overgeeked]

Which can be gotten around by making them into a lineage of their own.

Yeah, absolutely could be changed. I was just calling them out as presented in the original.

(Although, as a person with ovaries, I would be more than happy to have adventures taking the sex slavers and forced-breeding facilitators down; perhaps strangely, it's the men in my group who would likely be the most uncomfortable dealing with that issue.)

Right. It's weird how some of that works.

 

[overgeeked]

EDIT: This is the Head of D&D for those unaware.

That's awesome. Thank you.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

That's awesome. Thank you.

Yeah, that tweet certainly gets the wheels turning on speculation. I suspect they will be tackling the most popular classic settings first (Planescape, Dark Sun, Dragonlance), but I'm curious how they will reference or explore other settings even if they aren't the focus of the entirety of their own book.

I'm still holding out for a Spelljammer book, especially after Perkins made a "Space Clowns" tweet and the D&D twitter made a "Spelljammer confirmed" joke replying. But alas, I am likely to be disappointed.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Yeah, that tweet certainly gets the wheels turning on speculation. I suspect they will be tackling the most popular classic settings first (Planescape, Dark Sun, Dragonlance), but I'm curious how they will reference or explore other settings even if they aren't the focus of the entirety of their own book.

I'm still holding out for a Spelljammer book, especially after Perkins made a "Space Clowns" tweet and the D&D twitter made a "Spelljammer confirmed" joke replying. But alas, I am likely to be disappointed.

Best hope for Spelljammer is key elements being included in Planescape. I don't know how likely that is, though.