D&D 5E Why D&D is not (just) Tolkien

[StormbringerAUS]

How much influence on GaryG and his friends on the original D&D I don't know but some things (especially Rangers) seem to point to at least a little to moderate. But other influences are without a doubt important as well.

As to D&D itself, well it would not have gotten off the ground and continue to thrive without the players and huge numbers of us have been hugely influenced and may not have gotten into the game with it. For me this is true without a shadow of a doubt, I wanted to be Aragorn or Thorin or Gandalf and not just read about them and this gave me the chance to do so.

Later of course I wanted to be Elric or the Grey Mouser but for me without Tolkien I never would have found them or D&D.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I happen to be reading Lord Dunsany currently, and literally just finished a story where the hero meets a giant intelligent spider. Which reminded me of this thread, naturally, because people have credited Tolkien with that trope when it appeared much earlier.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Following the 1977 cease-and-desist letter from Elan Merchandising, owners of the non-literary Tolkien rights, TSR were forced to change the text of many of their publications including Chainmail, the Basic Set and OD&D, removing direct Tolkien references. This thread has a list of the alterations made to OD&D, which are quite extensive and include five instances of "Tolkein".

M&M
6.11 “hobbits” – uncorrected – all
8 Hobbits & Balrog (5) Halflings & Dragon (6,7)
9 Hobbits, Ents, Balrogs (5) Halflings, Treants, <blank> (6,7)
23.11 “(i.e, a Balrog),” (5) – removed (6,7)

M&T
1 image labeled “Nazgul” (5) – title removed (6,7)
3 “Balrogs” (5) – whole line removed (6,7)
4 “Ents” (5) Treants” (6,7)
7.ORCS para “Tolkein” ref (5) – removed and para reformatted (6,7)
7.”Balrog… 25%/100 Orcs…” present (5) – whole line removed (6,7)
9 “Barrow Wights (per Tolkein)” (5) – “Wights” and para reformatted; end of last line “energy by a Wight becomes a Wight” left duplicated in previous font (6,7) - plus "Tolkein" - uncorrected all - of course
9 “The Nazgul of Tolkein…” sentence (5) – removed and para reformatted (6,7)
13 image labeled “Balrog” (5) – title removed (6,7)
14 “BALROGS” paragraph/description (5) – removed and replaced by Tom Wham artwork (6,7)
16.ENTS refs to Ents (5) – replaced by Treants and para reformatted (6,7)
17.ROCS para “Eagles of Tolkein…” ref (5) – removed and para reformatted (6,7)
23 Sword 61-65 - +3 vs…. “Ents” (5) – “Treants” and “65” damaged (6,7)
27.sword alignment - ref to Ents (5) – changed to Treants and para reformatted (6,7)
32.potion of Fire Resistance – “Balrog immolation” – uncorrected – all Smile
32.(line above previous Balrog ref.) – “Fire” (5) in “Dragon Fire” – word replaced/in slightly different font (6,7) (slight difference between 6 & 7, too?))

U&WA
9.18 Hobbits (5) Halflings (6,7)
11.Monster Level 6/9 – Balrogs (5) Spectres (6,7)
14 image labeled “Nazgul” (5) – title removed (6,7)
15.table “Balrogs” and “Ents” (5) “Chmrs.” and “Treants” (6,7)
16. MOVEMENT table – “Balrog” line (5) removed (6,7)
18. last “12” line “Balrogs” and “Ents” (5,6) blank and “Treants” (7)
19.Dragon Types/10. “Balrogs” (5,6) blank (7)
25 image labeled “Ent” (5) – title removed (6,7)

 

[BookBarbarian]

Oh hey, this thread got necroed!

Unfortunately I've run out of things to contribute.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm pretty sure the original Yak-men were in 2E Al-Qadim, as the token infidels in the mountains after all the normal monstrous humanoids had converted to Not-Islam.

Iuz has a bit of a Mordor vibe going on.

Iuz and Mordor; weird what turns up when you're looking.

Given my searches for all things Greyhawk-y, I went to this thread; on the one hand, the influence of Tolkien on D&D is inarguable. On the other hand, Gygax strenuously argued against it.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Iuz and Mordor; weird what turns up when you're looking.

Given my searches for all things Greyhawk-y, I went to this thread; on the one hand, the influence of Tolkien on D&D is inarguable. On the other hand, Gygax strenuously argued against it.

Is getting the exact ratios isn't important? It's an influence, but only one of many.

 

[Parmandur]

Iuz and Mordor; weird what turns up when you're looking.

Given my searches for all things Greyhawk-y, I went to this thread; on the one hand, the influence of Tolkien on D&D is inarguable. On the other hand, Gygax strenuously argued against it.

Gygax...said things. Apply grains of salt as needed.

Iuz the individual Cambion demigod gives off heavy Sauron vibes (granted, more Second Age Sauron than Third Age Sauron, but that more goes to how the Tolkien influence might be deeper than Gygax wanted to admit), and Iuz the country is clearly Mordoresque "the monsters rule here" stuff.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Is getting the exact ratios isn't important? It's an influence, but only one of many.

I said that to my spouse when she asked why my baking always tasted off.

...apparently, it does matter for some things.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Iuz the individual Cambion demigod gives off heavy Sauron vibes (granted, more Second Age Sauron than Third Age Sauron, but that more goes to how the Tolkien influence might be deeper than Gygax wanted to admit), and Iuz the country is clearly Mordoresque "the monsters rule here" stuff.

I completely agree, and I'd add that Celadon Forest resembles Lothlorien and Fangorn Forest, Celene and its ruler Queen Yolande somewhat resemble Lothlorien, and the "Battle of Emridy Meadows" (the name) resembles the "Battle of the Pelennor Fields". The way that demihumans -- elves, dwarves, halflings -- make military alliances with good humans and evil humanoids -- orcs, goblins, etc -- ally with evil humans is similar to the battles in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. The importance of the high fantasy races in Greyhawk is covered here in more detail.

 

[CleverNickName]

Woah, blast from the past...again!