D&D (2024) bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

[Oofta]

assuming it is an organic sapient entity that could be the product of evolution by default we would have a lot in common.

what is it you strictly dislike about it?

We have limited understanding of how other intelligences would work, I don't make the assumption that they'd think like us. Different animals have very different behaviors, beyond that we don't really know much. Did they evolve from carnivores? Herbivores? Cephalopods?

In a fantasy world where creatures can be created by gods (or crazed wizards) it's even worse.

 

[Mind of tempest]

We have limited understanding of how other intelligences would work, I don't make the assumption that they'd think like us. Different animals have very different behaviors, beyond that we don't really know much. Did they evolve from carnivores? Herbivores? Cephalopods?

In a fantasy world where creatures can be created by gods (or crazed wizards) it's even worse.

true but in order for technological civilization as we know to be an option for them they would likely be oddly similar but also super different as there is a likely super limited number of ways to do anything and given how difficult consciousness is it likely has a limited number of possible patterns.

they would likely care about different things but the basics would be familiar to us like eating and socialising.

 

[Oofta]

true but in order for technological civilization as we know to be an option for them they would likely be oddly similar but also super different as there is a likely super limited number of ways to do anything and given how difficult consciousness is it likely has a limited number of possible patterns.

they would likely care about different things but the basics would be familiar to us like eating and socialising.

Maybe? I mean, these are things that many, many people have speculated how aliens might think. Then we have creatures that, according to the lore aren't creatures that followed the normal evolutionary path. Created by gods, demons, experiments gone wrong.

But it's a philosophical debate that likely will never have a resolution unless we actually met little green which isn't likely to happen any time soon, if ever.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the issue with any generically evil creature (let's call them Blargs) is that at some point someone is going to start identifying with them because Blargs are outcasts from normal society that are feared and some people feel like they don't fit in. Then they want to play a Blarg so we come up with stats. The next thing you know, it's a bad thing that Blargs are a representation of people that are prejudiced against. Since we can no longer have generically evil Blargs we come up with something completely different called Blurgs. The cycle continues.
.

I don’t know, I have only ever seen people say that undead or fiends or aberrations should be less evil in threads about orcs and such, as an attempted counter to arguments about orcs and Drow.

I don’t think we have any evidence that the cycle you describe exists.

 

[Charlaquin]

The brilliance of Star Trek is that it doesn’t bother trying to pretend that, as humans, its writers can create aliens that aren’t ultimately reflections of some aspect of humanity. Star Trek recognizes this limitation and rather than fighting it, sets out to make the best fiction it can within that constraint. It lets its aliens be reflections of humanity, and uses the differences they do have to explore or say something interesting about humanity. Tolkien did this too with the races of Middle Earth. All great fiction is ultimately about people.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think the "aliens are humans with rubber prosthetics" is one of the worst aspects of Star Trek. I think it makes no sense in sci-fi, I think it makes even less sense in fantasy. Of course, making non-human have a truly alien perspective is difficult.

Different and also often alienating. Xenofiction, where the writer takes pains to actually write truly alien mindsets and cultures traditionally has issues gaining an audience due to humans having difficulty empathizing with things they can't humanize. That's part of why we anthropomorphize EVERYTHING.

 

[Northern Phoenix]

I am more an orsimer man my self but yeah orc have more or less become people in most settings, we can't really reset that.

I didn't mean the "lore" of the Warcraft orcs spesifically, more their visual design, as also seen in elder scrolls, Warhammer, Raid: SL, "Orcs Must Die", and countless others. Compared to the weird pig head versions, the big green orc is ubiquitous.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I much prefer the Star Trek approach to aliens, and that might be because I am a person of colour. I think the original idea from the 60's of it being an idealized future where not only a Japanese man, a black woman and a Russian can be part of the crew (coming from a time when those things were almost unthinkable), but so can an alien like Spock. And I feel D&D idea of an adventuring party of different races/species always taps into that idea from Star Trek.

A socially progressive show in many ways, for its time.

I will add however, that the show (and its successors) did a very good job of using alien races to highlight humanity by comparison. Spock (and Vulkans) were used to contrast the "emotional" humans to the logical-analytical Vulkans, for example. A great way of exploring humanity for showing something un-like humanity.

 

[GreyLord]

There has been science fiction that shows how different aliens can be from their human counterparts.

Ender's Game originally has a species that humans do not understand to the point that humans just about wipe them out to the last bug.

The Left Hand of Darkness by Le Guin is a classic. While the aliens have alien characteristics and thinking, they are also distinctly alien in many aspects which accentuate the difference between how the races developed from different places in the galaxy.

Asimov had a few novels of alien species as well, though I believe they were one offs, where he attempted to paint differences of a human vs. alien mind and the conflicts and truisms between them.

I think it is possible to try to incorporate an alien with a culture or attitude that is foreign and alien to humanity and still have a successful novel, though it is not as prevalent as the Star Trek route.

 

[Mind of tempest]

There has been science fiction that shows how different aliens can be from their human counterparts.

Ender's Game originally has a species that humans do not understand to the point that humans just about wipe them out to the last bug.

The Left Hand of Darkness by Le Guin is a classic. While the aliens have alien characteristics and thinking, they are also distinctly alien in many aspects which accentuate the difference between how the races developed from different places in the galaxy.

Asimov had a few novels of alien species as well, though I believe they were one offs, where he attempted to paint differences of a human vs. alien mind and the conflicts and truisms between them.

I think it is possible to try to incorporate an alien with a culture or attitude that is foreign and alien to humanity and still have a successful novel, though it is not as prevalent as the Star Trek route.

they seem like odd humans honestly, the people from the left hand of darkness.

maybe we have the problem as if they are people then they are sort of like us.