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D&D 6E bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

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wicked cool

Adventurer
Not sure exactly sure when orcs were changed but I argue they should be changed back

why?
1) orcs have been becoming more and more human like and its made them less interesting plus like drow they are a future problem for an everchanging society
2) if not maybe a variant
3) the orc name is from "pig faced"

hobgoblin
1) hobgoblins need something . Over the years kobolds, gnolls, bugbears and even goblins have become more interesting. Kobolds became inventors and the design has greatly improved. Same with gnolls. hobgoblins have been dulled down (they are the military/armored slightly stronger goblin) and often get sort of lumped in with orcs (theres nothing that really jumps out about a hobgoblin)
2) I think they need a change-Maybe they are cannibals, maybe they have a unique spell/ability , give them a distinct appearance (I would make them more like the falmer of elder scrolls-scary)
 

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ART!

Hero
3) the orc name is from "pig faced"
To nitpick - because hey, it's what we do:

Origin
1617892821600.png
 

DnD Warlord

Adventurer
I like sub races I like the idea of BOTH fallen half elf with greenish grey skin AND pig faced pink with slight dark green highlights.
(I also like both draconian and dog like kobolds)
 

Stormonu

Legend
Orcs haven’t been pig-faced since before 2E. Actually, I think GW’s Warhammer (40K) miniatures redefined D&D’s look. And it’s a look I’m not really keen on going back to.

Hobgoblins have really been getting their own personality since 4E, and I like the “Roman legion” sort of direction they’ve acquired.

Orcs, however, seem to have been losing traction over the years in preference to the goblinoid races (hobgoblin, bugbear, goblin), and I’m not sure why - maybe the prevalence of World of Warcraft’s popularity? It seems to me they’ve been used less and less as adversaries over the last few years.
 


embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
Not sure exactly sure when orcs were changed but I argue they should be changed back

why?
1) orcs have been becoming more and more human like and its made them less interesting plus like drow they are a future problem for an everchanging society
2) if not maybe a variant
3) the orc name is from "pig faced"

hobgoblin
1) hobgoblins need something . Over the years kobolds, gnolls, bugbears and even goblins have become more interesting. Kobolds became inventors and the design has greatly improved. Same with gnolls. hobgoblins have been dulled down (they are the military/armored slightly stronger goblin) and often get sort of lumped in with orcs (theres nothing that really jumps out about a hobgoblin)
2) I think they need a change-Maybe they are cannibals, maybe they have a unique spell/ability , give them a distinct appearance (I would make them more like the falmer of elder scrolls-scary)
Orcs: the name has nothing to do with pigs.

Hobgoblins: They are, in real-life lore, trickster house spirits. Not cannibals.

I don't think that either are becoming "less interesting" but rather that you find the current iteration of orcs and hobgoblins to be less interesting than you found prior iterations.

That said, you do you. If you want Gamorrean orcs, describe them as such. Your table, your world.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Orcs, however, seem to have been losing traction over the years in preference to the goblinoid races (hobgoblin, bugbear, goblin), and I’m not sure why - maybe the prevalence of World of Warcraft’s popularity? It seems to me they’ve been used less and less as adversaries over the last few years.

Yeah. In ye olden days, Orcs were THE enemy in D&D. Obviously, every table is different, etc., but just like "fireball" was the signature spell, orcs were the signature baddie. I don't know if it was Tolkien influence, or because of early modules like B2, or the zeitgeist, or what, but it was definitely a thing.

Now? Not so much. Probably because more people are interested in being orcs than fighting them, I guess.
 


As per the recent UA, hobgoblins seem to be reverting to what they where before Tolkien turned them into GenericSoldiersOfEvil(TM).

Seems like an improvement to me.

“Oh,” cried Lizzie, “Laura, Laura,
You should not peep at goblin men.”
Lizzie cover’d up her eyes,
Cover’d close lest they should look;
Laura rear’d her glossy head,
And whisper’d like the restless brook:
“Look, Lizzie, look, Lizzie,
Down the glen tramp little men.
One hauls a basket,
One bears a plate,
One lugs a golden dish
Of many pounds weight.
How fair the vine must grow
Whose grapes are so luscious;
How warm the wind must blow
Through those fruit bushes.”
“No,” said Lizzie, “No, no, no;
Their offers should not charm us,
Their evil gifts would harm us.”
She thrust a dimpled finger
In each ear, shut eyes and ran:
Curious Laura chose to linger
Wondering at each merchant man.
One had a cat’s face,
One whisk’d a tail,
One tramp’d at a rat’s pace,
One crawl’d like a snail,
One like a wombat prowl’d obtuse and furry,
One like a ratel tumbled hurry skurry.
 

el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
Hobgoblins in my current setting have an empire across the sea, and the PCs (among others) are just having first contact with them in the form of foreign mercenaries hired by their opponents. They like to use electrum pieces (foreign money!) and have a very gender segregated militant society that is mostly matriarchal.
 

jgsugden

Legend
It depends upon the 'origin' you're referencing. Tolkien is a foundational influence in D&D, and Tolkien's use of goblin and orc does not derive directly from folklore descriptions.

The physical appearance of a humanoid type in D&D really doesn't matter. My world is huge, so I have creatures that use the orc stats that come from very different locations, and are described very differently.

In 6E, when that comes way down the line, I would expect:

  • Humanoids will be used as antagonists less often. When they are antagonists, there will be a mix of humanoids, rather than a single 'tribe' encountered.
  • We'll see a few creatures moved further away from being a humanoid type. Gnolls will be demons. Orcs, elves and goblinoids may become fey creatures. Aasimar will be celestials.
  • There will be a clear line that humanoids have more free will than other creature types, while non-humanoids will be bound by inherent controls - although there will be a mechanic for PCs of these types to break free from those controls. An example is the Goblinoid Curse in Matt Mercer's Tal'dorei campaign setting that are generally bound by the Curse of Strife. Note that I do not think this is necessarily a good idea - just that I think it will happen.
 



Dragonsbane

Proud Grognard
1. On Orcs- oh no. That's a thread closer.

2. On Hobgoblins- I think the idea of being organized, fearsome martial warriors - similar to Roman Legions - has become much more prevalent, and is a great hook for them.
On 1 - thankfully maybe not this time? :)
 




Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Not sure exactly sure when orcs were changed but I argue they should be changed back
Not gonna argue the accuracy of your claims, but there are plenty of illustrations of orcs in 1e where they are not pig faced. So it's been a while. Even if I personally prefer the pig faced ones (as mentioned upthread, because I always thought of the Star Wars Gamorreans as orcs). It's not a recent change.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Fizbang the Munificent Mage: So, uh, I traveled back in time.

Gork the Orc: Cool, man.

Fizbang: Yeah, I uh, was wandering around this keep, and got caught up in an adventure ....

Gork: Great!

Fizbang: And I ran into some of your, um, compatriots from back then ....

B2_Cover.png


Gork: ................

Fizbang: They looked a little ... you know ... strange ....

Gork: .................

Fizbang: Anything you wanna tell me, Gork?

Gork: WE DON'T SPEAK ABOUT IT!
 

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