D&D (2024) bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

[Mecheon]

These threads are always turning out to be the same. Let me summarize the next 10 pages, if the last three threads are of any indicator:

I can always try to veer back to the original topic on why the orc hasn't gone back to the Pig orc appearance and folks have instead gone with their regular mental image of what orcs look like.

Paizo found out the hard way about people having a certain image for things when they asked for Tiefling artwork, expecting mix-mash of demon stuff like the old days, and instead got 4E style ones

 

[Hussar]

I've never told anyone else how to run their game or that it's wrong somehow to run anything differently than I run it.

In addition, we've been down this road. It's the same cycle.

1. I don't see a problem with monsters, including orcs always being evil. They serve a purpose in the game. Change alignments to what makes sense for your campaign.​

2. But why not have only some orcs be evil?​

3. That's fine. Do what makes sense for your campaign.​

4. Okay, but why not have only some orcs be evil?​

5. Go to step 1 until the thread gets shut down.​

Why bother typing up the same in depth on my reasoning and logic behind my decisions when you're just going to have the same responses anyway?

Because you're the one attempting to frustrate people and conversation to the point where the thread gets shut down?

We'd like to have an adult conversation here about what we feel is an important issue. You keep interrupting with these sidebar conversations that never go anywhere, all the while claiming to be the victim of others. It's frustrating and pointless. You are not, even remotely, trying to engage in good faith.

 

[Oofta]

And nobody has ever said that every single soldier of an evil regime is evil. In fact, I gave several examples how they could be logically not-evil!

You are the one who keeps making this claim, just like you are the one who keeps claiming that people are calling you racist or nazi sympathizers when nobody has, and just like you are the one who keeps claiming that orcs with culture are just humans with funny teeth. And when we keep trying to talk about that, you just run away. Criminy.

Then please explain what you mean by this:

Except when people started talking about having evil regimes you started to argue against it. You're continuing to do so right now.

I have no issue with evil regimes, I use them in my own campaigns. All I've ever said about evil regimes is that I don't think it makes sense to assume that every (human) member of that regime is evil.

Which is why I get frustrated. How do we go from "not all storm troopers were evil, some are conscripts who have no choice" to your exact words "Except when people started talking about having evil regimes you started to argue against it."

People wonder why I get frustrated when my words keep getting twisted into something I've never said.

 

[Bohandas]

They absolutely can, but that different way of thinking and feeling must either come from their environment or their biology, so the question is still applicable. If it’s environmental, it can’t be universal. If it’s genetic, yikes.

Why "yikes"? Why is it shocking that a different species should think and act in a different way? Why shouldn't a dog act like a dog and a cat act like a cat?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why "yikes"? Why is it shocking that a different species should think and act in a different way? Why shouldn't a dog act like a dog and a cat act like a cat?

We don't (seriously) call cats 'evil' for being cats though.

 

[Oofta]

Because you're the one attempting to frustrate people and conversation to the point where the thread gets shut down?

We'd like to have an adult conversation here about what we feel is an important issue. You keep interrupting with these sidebar conversations that never go anywhere, all the while claiming to be the victim of others. It's frustrating and pointless. You are not, even remotely, trying to engage in good faith.

If you don't want me to respond, stop quoting me and asking questions.

As far as responding in good faith, I do my best, I just disagree on some issues.

 

[Oofta]

We don't (seriously) call cats 'evil' for being cats though.

In all fairness cats (I have 2 on my lap right now) are kind of evil. Killing for fun if given the chance, mesmerizing people with a vocal charm, only being affectionate when it suits them.

 

[Charlaquin]

Why "yikes"? Why is it shocking that a different species should think and act in a different way? Why shouldn't a dog act like a dog and a cat act like a cat?

So you’re saying it’s genetic? That’s yikes, because it suggests evil is a product of biology. Remember, we’re not just talking about different behaviors, we’re talking about morality. If the idea of good and evil being inborn traits doesn’t disturb you, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s generally not an idea that flies these days.

 

[Charlaquin]

In all fairness cats (I have 2 on my lap right now) are kind of evil. Killing for fun if given the chance, mesmerizing people with a vocal charm, only being affectionate when it suits them.

And sharks are literal bloodthirsty killers, but we don’t call them evil either. The notion of evil generally implies knowing better and willfully choosing to do the wrong thing. The idea that such willful malice is genetic is not harmless.

 

[Oofta]

And sharks are literal bloodthirsty killers, but we don’t call them evil either. The notion of evil generally implies knowing better and willfully choosing to do the wrong thing. The idea that such willful malice is genetic is not harmless.

We're talking about a fantasy world were a vengeful deity created a race for a specific reason. Why would it only be genetics?

In any case the physical structure of our brains has significant influence on our behavior. Some people are born without a sense of right or wrong.

I don't see why a different species would necessarily share our morality, especially not when they were created for a purpose in a fantasy world.