D&D (2024) bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

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The notion of evil generally implies knowing better and willfully choosing to do the wrong thing. The idea that such willful malice is genetic is not harmless.

This is interesting and I'm still mulling this around in my mind.
Creatures spawned from a demon deity with unflattering traits (bloodlust) and a fierce dislike for outsiders (xenophobic). Is that enough to be evil? Do they truly know better?

Your comment reminded me of Louis in Interview with the Vampire who tried desperately to satiate his bloodlust by feeding on animals. VtM does this with the inner conflict between the Beast/Humanity.
 
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This is interesting and I'm stilling mulling this around in my mind.
Creatures spawned from a demon deity with unflattering traits (bloodlust) and a fierce dislike for outsiders (xenophobic). Is that enough to be evil? Do they truly know better?
Well that’s the thing, isn’t it? The idea of monsters spawned from an evil god that aren’t capable of being anything other than what they were made to be... Doesn’t really jive well with our concepts of morality. If they can’t choose to be good, can we even really say they’re evil?
Your comment reminded me of Louis in Interview with the Vampire who tried desperately to satiate his bloodlust by feeding on animals. VtM does this with the inner conflict between the Beast/Humanity.
I do love me some tragic vampires.
 

Well that’s the thing, isn’t it? The idea of monsters spawned from an evil god that aren’t capable of being anything other than what they were made to be... Doesn’t really jive well with our concepts of morality. If they can’t choose to be good, can we even really say they’re evil?
It is definitely a philosophical deep dive.
Thinking it from the playable races pov, they would consider those beings to be evil - at least on the face of it.
 


It is definitely a philosophical deep dive.
Thinking it from the playable races pov, they would consider those beings to be evil - at least on the face of it.
Oh, sure. It makes perfect sense to me to have the Common Folk think of most “Monstrous” Folk as evil. No reason in-world prejudice shouldn’t exist. I just don’t think the game should implicitly justify that in-world prejudice by giving lineages built-in alignments.
 

Well that’s the thing, isn’t it? The idea of monsters spawned from an evil god that aren’t capable of being anything other than what they were made to be... Doesn’t really jive well with our concepts of morality. If they can’t choose to be good, can we even really say they’re evil?
For game purposes, I don't see why it really matters. Alignment for monsters gives us "a clue to its disposition and how it behaves in a roleplaying or combat situation."

Real world good and evil is much more complicated.
 

For game purposes, I don't see why it really matters. Alignment for monsters gives us "a clue to its disposition and how it behaves in a roleplaying or combat situation."
I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t know what an orc’s disposition or behavior in roleplaying and combat would be if it weren’t for two letters in the stat block.
Real world good and evil is much more complicated.
Indeed, complicated and sensitive. So maybe let’s not oversimplify it in game. If you want to avoid complex moral dilemmas in your RPGs (which is totally understandable), then actually avoid those moral dilemmas, instead of just including them but pretending they aren’t deeply complex topics.
 

Is there a creature in D&D that doesn't try to make the other guy not live anymore in a combat situation?

Pretty sure the flaming sword of Celestials are not just fancy torches.
 

For game purposes, I don't see why it really matters. Alignment for monsters gives us "a clue to its disposition and how it behaves in a roleplaying or combat situation."

Real world good and evil is much more complicated.
I think an issue is that the orc in the MM is presented as a "default orc" when really it's representing an orc warrior that typically gets in the way of characters' goals.

I wouldn't be surprised if in future printings WotC avoids having stat blocks in the MM for generic humanoids, and instead has explicit roles for the orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, etc presented there. Having the stats for a "goblin thief" or "orc raider" or "hobgoblin soldier" would divorce those stat blocks from generalizations about the race while also clarifying the expected behaviors and disposition of that foe.
 

I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t know what an orc’s disposition or behavior in roleplaying and combat would be if it weren’t for two letters in the stat block.

Indeed, complicated and sensitive. So maybe let’s not oversimplify it in game. If you want to avoid complex moral dilemmas in your RPGs (which is totally understandable), then actually avoid those moral dilemmas, instead of just including them but pretending they aren’t deeply complex topics.
Alignment is just an aid that goes along with the descriptive text. Orcs have been around for so long I don't need it, but I find it useful for other monsters. For someone running orcs for the first time that has a decent grasp of the concepts but has never picked up a MM in their life I think it's useful. Also easy to ignore if you don't like it.

As far as simplification, I deal with complex stuff at times in my games. Other times I want a simple beer and pretzels game. Usually it's something in-between but the majority of times, yes, there is a bright and clear line between good and evil. It makes it stand out more when the lines are murky. I wouldn't have as much fun in a game where I had to deal with realistic all the time. I have to deal with reality all day long, sometimes I want a break. Different people play for different reasons, I think the game can and should support different styles.

D&D is all about simplifying reality to easy-to-grasp and implement rules. I don't see why default alignment should be any different.
 

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