D&D 5E Vicious Dagger question

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Hive mind, help!
Vicious Dagger does 7 extra damage “when you roll a 20”.

Would you rule that it would deal its extra damage on an improved critical (eg L4 Champion Fighter on a 19 or 20)?

(I have a gnome MC Fighter/Rogue in my game who likes to TWF fight with two daggers and thought would be a neat item to allow them to capitalise on their improved crit ability but being a lowly base d4 dagger, not be game-breaking.)

I know, “your game, your ruling”, but wanted to see if folks thought it was OP.

What do you think? Thanks in advance.

 

[Shiroiken]

It's not OP, especially since the base weapon damage will overall lower the DPR, but I would still rule "only on a 20" since that's what the item says.

 

[BluejayJunior]

RAW, it does not work like that. It happens on a roll of 20, not on a critical hit, so it doesn't matter if something increases the critical hit range.
That being said, it wouldn't be game breaking to allow it. 10% of the characters attacks do an extra 7 damage, that is hardly going to throw anything out of whack.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If you want to give them a unique item, you don't need to bother changing the rules of a standard Vicious weapon... just make a magic dagger that does +2d6 damage on a critical hit. Then it applies to anyone with an expanded crit range and has the same average bonus damage (7) to the Vicious property.

 

[Blue]

If you want to give them a unique item, you don't need to bother changing the rules of a standard Vicious weapon... just make a magic dagger that does +2d6 damage on a critical hit. Then it applies to anyone with an expanded crit range and has the same average bonus damage (7) to the Vicious property.

Well, as dice they would be doubled in a crit. So just 1d6.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Well, as dice they would be doubled in a crit. So just 1d6.

True. This was the end result I was meaning to get across mechanically.

 

[Arvok]

The only thing you might want to consider are scenarios where all hits are critical hits (e.g. an assassin's assassinate ability or attacks against a paralyzed opponent). Those are probably rare enough to not be a problem...unless your players figure it out and build characters or tactics to make use of those situations.

 

[billd91]

While it wouldn't be unbalancing to do it on a 19 (or even 18) for characters who crit in those ranges, I doubt that was the intent (otherwise, they'd say "on a critical hit...").
That said, this does have a benefit that people might not easily notice. Anything that negates crits, whether a class power or adamantine armor, won't negate this extra damage. It's not a crit. It doesn't happen "on a crit". It happens on a 20, which may overlap with scoring a crit, but isn't dependent on doing so.

 

[Istbor]

I would probably just allow it to happen with Improved Critical. There isn't much harm in it gamewise.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Thanks for the replies!
Some legalese wording in there that I hadn’t considered @billd91
@DEFCON 1 - if something does +X dmg ‘on a crit’ then would it be considered as extra ie dagger d4 doubled/rolled twice for the crit, then add the ‘+2d6’ afterwards (like sneak attack), or am I getting it backwards? (Been a looong day!)