D&D General Ravenloft, horror, & safety tools...

[Bedrockgames]

But it's OK for you to use your feelings against them as a weapon?

No, people shouldn't be weaponizing their feelings. You can express them. But we have to express them as adults and realize at the end fo the day, we can't control the outcome. I may really want to play in a game, but my friends may not be able to play that game without a certain element present, even if I say that element causes me problems. That doesn't mean they hate me or that they want to exclude me. But they have a right to want to continue to play a game in a way that fits what they want, and they have a right to say they don't know how to handle something like a person having a major phobia or panic disorder at the table. This is just something groups need to figure out amongst themselves.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The fact that you said "probably" when it involves a "close friend" doesn't suggest that you're a very good friend.

Please stop reaching these kind of uncharitable character judgments. The reason I say probably is I know my friends and I know which ones can experience something like being mauled by a tiger and would want that to still come up, and know which ones I would probably need to avoid it as a subject around. I use words like probably because there are very few black and white absolutes in life.

 

[Faolyn]

But my argument is not 'don't use safety tools and do ignore legitimate health issues, because someone might exploit safety tools'. My argument is 'don't ignore legitimate health issues, but safety tools are not a good solution, people will develop negative behavior in response to them and they seem to be making things worse'. I am happy to address the arguments I am making. But they keep getting framed as variations of "why don't you care about people with mental health issues" (I care very much about people with mental health issues----I am very skeptical of RPG safety tools ability to handle mental health issues, and am concerned about the impact they are having on gaming culture)

OK, you're being deliberately obtuse again because I know people have said this:

Safety checklists aren't supposed to handle, fix, cure, or prevent mental health issues.
They're to help you not cause unnecessary pain to people.​

Kind of like how seat belts and airbags aren't in cars to get you from Point A and Point B. They're in cars to help avoid injuries in case of a crash.

This is why people are annoyed with you: because we have told you this, several times, and you are totally ignoring us.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That exact thing happened in my game! When we got a new player in the game, I asked him if there was anything he didn't want me to include because it upset him--especially because I run a lot of Ravenloft. Due to his unfortunate religious upbringing, that thing was being possessed.

So guess what? I don't include possession in my games. I can have ghosts and fiends that do things other than possess people--since you've read the two associated Van Richten Guides, you know how many options there are for them. I have probably hundreds of monsters that I can use (especially since I grab creatures from other editions, settings, and even from other systems), and I can use each monster in probably dozens of ways, and only a single option has been taken away.

Nothing was undermined at all. I don't even have to do the "be more creative because I have limited options" thing, because I still have a zillion options to use.

And that is fair if you want to do that. But other groups might not feel that way. I don't know what the cut off for me would be. It would depend on the situation. but saying if someone in my group legitimately had an issue with possession storylines, and I was going to run Ravenloft, I might just say they probably should sit out the Ravenloft sessions (we run a lot of games, so there will still likely be something for them to participate in). It would really depend. But I think it would be totally fair for me to say this is the kind of campaign this is and if you have that problem, you might want to not play in the sessions or step outside should that come up.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Safety checklists aren't supposed to handle, fix, cure, or prevent mental health issues.
They're to help you not cause unnecessary pain to people.​

@Faolyn, I was just trying to explain to you that my argument wasn't 'be crappy to mentally ill people'. I understand people have been saying this about safety tools. But there are also posters here who have said safety tools are intended to prevent panic attacks (which means they are being used to prevent mental health issues). Also experiencing psychological pain is a mental health issue. Preventing mental health issues covers a lot of ground.

 

[Faolyn]

I am not saying someone talking about their real mental health issues is a part of a fad. I am saying now that we are socially rewarding talking about them, one thing I think you are seeing is a lot of people who don't have real mental health issues, or have minor issues, speaking as if they have much bigger issues (and its very obvious when you see it; it is all over social media).

Are you their psychiatrist? If not, then how do you know they don't have "real" or only "minor" mental health issues? Because of the way they posted to social media?

You are coming across as shallow, self-centered, uncaring, oblivious to others' needs, and possibly even sadistic, because of the way you are writing in this thread (and forums are a type of social media). Are you those things?

If not, then maybe your reading of those other people on social media is also inaccurate.

I think that does more harm to people with mental illness. And again just to be clear here, I say this because there is a long, long history of mental illness in my family. I've experienced myself, and I have also been on the receiving end of it. People are treating something that is very serious, potentially explosive, like a game mechanic.

Rolling to determine if you lost San because you saw a shoggoth is turning mental illness into a game mechanic.

Saying "tell me things you don't want to deal with in-game because they cause you a lot of pain in real life" is basic decency. And since some people don't necessarily think to do that (and not necessarily out of naughty wordry either), checklists are helpful.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Are you their psychiatrist? If not, then how do you know they don't have "real" or only "minor" mental health issues? Because of the way they posted to social media?

Yes, because of the way they posted on social media. And we are not talking about one or two people, I am saying there is a pattern, that appears to be exaggerated. I could be wrong. But I would also think it is unwise for us to be dishonest if we think something is an exaggeration and not say so

 

[Bedrockgames]

You are coming across as shallow, self-centered, uncaring, oblivious to others' needs, and possibly even sadistic, because of the way you are writing in this thread (and forums are a type of social media). Are you those things?

I am not these things

 

[Bedrockgames]

Rolling to determine if you lost San because you saw a shoggoth is turning mental illness into a game mechanic.

Saying "tell me things you don't want to deal with in-game because they cause you a lot of pain in real life" is basic decency. And since some people don't necessarily think to do that (and not necessarily out of naughty wordry either), checklists are helpful.

What I mean is we are creating procedures that are part of the set up of play, and using them to deal with mental health concerns. That is treating a seriously mental health issue like a mechanic. It may be pithy to respond to that with an example of Cthulhu insanity, but I think it is pretty clear what I mean, and I think the underlying truth of what I am saying is obvious to a lot of people even if they are afraid to say so

 

[Faolyn]

@Faolyn, I was just trying to explain to you that my argument wasn't 'be crappy to mentally ill people'. I understand people have been saying this about safety tools. But there are also posters here who have said safety tools are intended to prevent panic attacks (which means they are being used to prevent mental health issues). Also experiencing psychological pain is a mental health issue. Preventing mental health issues covers a lot of ground.

For the people in the back:

Safety check lists can help prevent panic attacks by avoiding topics that an individual knows causes them to have panic attacks.

Let's pretend that you have a serious fear of, I dunno, cats, to the point that you feel sick if one is in the same room as you. And your friend has a cat. A safety check list is the equivalent of your friend locking the cat in the bedroom while you hang out in the living room. It doesn't cure your ailurophobia, but it's not supposed to. It's just supposed to make you more comfortable while you're at your friends place.

What you are proposing is the equivalent of your friend letting the cat jump on your lap because putting her away would be "preventing a panic attack" and he's not a mental health professional so it's not up to him to help you out in any way.

Someone who did that would not be a very good friend. In fact, they'd be a pretty crappy person.