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D&D General Rulings, not Rules: How Will You Solve the Bard / Half Elf Dilemma?
- Thread starter Snarf Zagyg
- Start date
This is how I did it i the 1E game I am a pc I right now. And I am adoring it.
Orius
Unrepentant DM Supremacist
Throw out the crazy MAD 1e Bard and use 2e's instead. The 1e Bard is just ridiculous as written.
You need a 15 Str to take the class. Then, the dual-class rules would seem to require a 17 Dex, Wis and Cha, but apparently the Bard only needs them to all be 15 (another contradiction!). On top of that, you need a 12 Int and 10 Con -- who the hell in their right mind uses Con as a dump stat!?
You're stuck at your fighter level for your attack rolls. This will never improve, and you have to switch to thief before 8, so you never hit better than a 7th level fighter at most. Then your thief abilities are fixed at whatever level you leave thief which is what, 3rd at most? And this is 1e thief, which has fixed progressions for thief skills, and they're mostly mediocre at 3rd. At least your saves use the best of the 3 classes, with the bard levels having the same saves as a druid of the same level.
And since a 1st level Bard is the equivalent of a 9th level character, everyone else is hitting name level just as you're starting as a Bard.
You need a 15 Str to take the class. Then, the dual-class rules would seem to require a 17 Dex, Wis and Cha, but apparently the Bard only needs them to all be 15 (another contradiction!). On top of that, you need a 12 Int and 10 Con -- who the hell in their right mind uses Con as a dump stat!?
You're stuck at your fighter level for your attack rolls. This will never improve, and you have to switch to thief before 8, so you never hit better than a 7th level fighter at most. Then your thief abilities are fixed at whatever level you leave thief which is what, 3rd at most? And this is 1e thief, which has fixed progressions for thief skills, and they're mostly mediocre at 3rd. At least your saves use the best of the 3 classes, with the bard levels having the same saves as a druid of the same level.
And since a 1st level Bard is the equivalent of a 9th level character, everyone else is hitting name level just as you're starting as a Bard.
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Because it's not about 1e.
I know the answer to this question; there is no answer. It's possible that I am wrong, but having looked at this several times in the past, having looked at all the core rules, having checked into everything Gygax has said that I am familiar with, having looked at Dragon magazine ... I don't think that there is a single right answer.* It's one of those cases where the rules are, at best, questionable, and at worst, conflicting, and I think it provided a great example that many people weren't familiar with as to rules that don't always jibe. Moreover, given that we have a number of people that aren't familiar with this particular rule conflict, it allows people to look at a set of rules in a way without necessarily having the burden of having to defend their own 3e/4e/5e play practices.
In another thread, I noticed someone who was analyzing the rules to 1e using the proper 5e framework (specific beats general), and it made me think about how we approach rules, and rulings, in general. About the heuristics that people are using when they are looking at the rules for D&D, and about how they determine what is a rule, and what is a ruling. This combined with some thoughts I had when I was reading the thread a while back by @Charlaquin regarding Sage Advice in 5e, and how it contrasted with the thoughts I had recently when I was looking back at the assumptions that used to be baked into Sage Advice.
So I was using this thread/poll to see how people approached this question and how they would think about the concept of rules, rulings, and rule interpretation in general in D&D- not about 1e; after all, anyone still playing 1e has already decided this the correct way by hunting down and killing every single bard in their campaign.
Admittedly, the poll itself has not been tremendously successful (they never are!); the numbers are evenly split, and the leader right now (that half-elves multi-class into bard) is a homebrew suggestion that is the only one that has no support in the rules.
But I have appreciated some of the comments from people detailing the way that they have thought about the problem. It's provided additional information for my eventual post about the topic.*Hey- if someone does know a single right answer, feel free to provide it... I would love to know what it is. This may be shocking to some, but there are other examples of rules conflicts I can use.
aco175
Legend
This is why nobody at my table became a bard in 1e.
I voted for #3 with specific beating general in that there are rules for becoming a bard and only humans could do it with the multi-class rules, but the bard rules say that a 1/2elf can become a bard, so the multi-class rule of general can be broken for them.
I voted for #3 with specific beating general in that there are rules for becoming a bard and only humans could do it with the multi-class rules, but the bard rules say that a 1/2elf can become a bard, so the multi-class rule of general can be broken for them.
Crimson Longinus
Legend
Yes it was and labelling is of the thread misleading. My answer is that 1e is antiquated incoherent mess, play something better instead.
Tell you what- If you don't like the way I label my threads, you have an easy solution available to you.
Load up on dice, bring your friends
It's fun to roll and to pretend
Twosix is over-bored, and self-assured
Oh no, "bard" is a dirty word ...
Flamestrike
Legend
Specific overrides general.
They can be Bards just fine.
They can be Bards just fine.
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