D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Imaro]

So, exactly how is this different from what the OP complains about?

I want to do X in D&D.

Here's a 200+ page supplement that does X for you to wade through, read, and understand it well enough that you can then cherry pick mechanics for your game that may or may not work with the core assumptions of 5e for you to use.

VS.

I want to do X in D&D.

Well, core D&D doesn't do X very well, but, here's a great game that DOES do X very well. You'll have to wade through, read, and understand it well enough that you can then cherry pick mechanics for your game that may or may not work with the core assumptions of 5e for you to use.

In either case, my point is proven. D&D doesn't always do XYZ very well. You need to kitbash it, and the irony here is that the first two suggestions I get for changing core 5e are two 200+ page rulebooks. Yes, I don't need to read the world info, but, really? Backgrounds are not needed? No equipment changes? How am I supposed to know that if I don't read it first? I know that using my Thule rules certainly required reading those sections as well as several others, INCLUDING a large chunk of the setting information.

Heck, how am I supposed to know what parts of AiME or Talislanta 5e are pertinent or not if I don't read it? Simply take your advice on what parts I should read? So, how is that different from pointing to a different game where you would do exactly the same thing?

Let me try this again... THE RULES ARE D&D 5e.... so you are literally dealing with a rule set you know vs learning an entirely new one. Now given the fact that you know 5e (We would assume pretty well if it's the main or only game you play) you should be able to pick out what you need pretty quickly... certainly more quickly than reading, comprehending and gaining proficiency in an entirely new game... each and every time you want to do something slightly different. Are you seriously arguing that if you want a class system for a low magic world you need to read everything in the book... or do you just need to see how they do classes??

 

[Imaro]

But the premise of much of the thread is that it can do what other games do just as well as they can, and I think that’s a bad idea to put out there.

That's not the premise of the thread... that's what some have chosen to read into it.

 

[dave2008]

In either case, my point is proven. D&D doesn't always do XYZ very well. You need to kitbash it, and the irony here is that the first two suggestions I get for changing core 5e are two 200+ page rulebooks.

I don't know which games your are talking about, but often a lot of those pages are setting information. I mean Eberron, Rising from the Last War is 320 pages - and it the same game (5e D&D by WotC)! Typical the unique rules are very minimal and take up a couple pages at most.*

*Excluding new classes

 

[dave2008]

But the premise of much of the thread is that it can do what other games do just as well as they can, and I think that’s a bad idea to put out there.

IMO, the premise of much of the thread is that D&D 5e can do many different genres. Primarily D&D versions of those genres. I don't think anyone is saying D&D can do everything for everyone in every setting / genre. I mean D&D isn't even the best heroic fantasy game for some people.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, exactly how is this different from what the OP complains about?

I want to do X in D&D.

Here's a 200+ page supplement that does X for you to wade through, read, and understand it well enough that you can then cherry pick mechanics for your game that may or may not work with the core assumptions of 5e for you to use.

VS.

I want to do X in D&D.

Well, core D&D doesn't do X very well, but, here's a great game that DOES do X very well. You'll have to wade through, read, and understand it well enough that you can then cherry pick mechanics for your game that may or may not work with the core assumptions of 5e for you to use.

In either case, my point is proven. D&D doesn't always do XYZ very well. You need to kitbash it, and the irony here is that the first two suggestions I get for changing core 5e are two 200+ page rulebooks. Yes, I don't need to read the world info, but, really? Backgrounds are not needed? No equipment changes? How am I supposed to know that if I don't read it first? I know that using my Thule rules certainly required reading those sections as well as several others, INCLUDING a large chunk of the setting information.

Heck, how am I supposed to know what parts of AiME or Talislanta 5e are pertinent or not if I don't read it? Simply take your advice on what parts I should read? So, how is that different from pointing to a different game where you would do exactly the same thing?

I refuse to beleive that you can’t see the difference between a supplement that is literally 5e D&D with some new classes, and a completely different game.

 

[dave2008]

I refuse to beleive that you can’t see the difference between a supplier by that is literally 5e D&D with some new classes, and a completely different game.

Did you mean "supplement?"

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But the premise of much of the thread is that it can do what other games do just as well as they can, and I think that’s a bad idea to put out there.

No, it isn’t. The premise is that D&D can generally do the same genre. That most of the stuff people ask for advice on doing in D&D are totally doable within D&D , and it’s really crappy to tell someone who asks how to do a thing in D&D that they’re wrong to want to do it in D&D .

 

[dave2008]

In either case, my point is proven. D&D doesn't always do XYZ very well. You need to kitbash it, and the irony here is that the first two suggestions I get for changing core 5e are two 200+ page rulebooks.

We play a non-core version of D&D it takes all of 1 page of house rules. It takes very little rules to change the core of D&D. However, if you want to support that with more classes, backgrounds, equipment, magic items, monsters, etc. (and you would if you want to sell it and make money), then yes it could take 200+ pages. But to change the core to another genre, just a page or two will do.

 

[hawkeyefan]

That's not the premise of the thread... that's what some have chosen to read into it.

Here is the beginning of the OP.

So, there is a lot of traffic on the internet dedicated to the idea that DnD is a very limited game, and if you want to run a heist or have romantic fantasy narratives, or even just play a game where bonds with other people is very important, then you should play some indie game that is built for that thing, rather than D&D.

I disagree.

So yes.....this is saying that D&D is a better option to achieve a genre/feel/vibe than a game built with that specific genre/feel/vibe in mind. It also throws in some kind of "indie" designation when there are plenty of mainstream options that would also fit the bill. And the title of the thread is very telling; it contains the word "versus". This has been framed as a contest.

D&D can be tweaked and can deliver different genres and have a different feel than the kind of default heroic fantasy that it comes with. I mentioned Stars Without Number myself, and there are other equally good examples. But that doesn't mean it does so better than other games. The fact that a specific person finds it easier to kind of mold D&D into something slightly different than they would to learn a new game is fine. I don't think that's necessarily true, but I think it's also subjective, and depends on the game in question.

But what D&D can be tweaked to do does not encompass everything achievable by RPGs. There are other ways to do so, and they may be better. Also, some games just function in fundamentally different ways than D&D. The distribution of authority among participants is different, and the rules and processes create a different feel during play. Elements like these are almost entirely off the table if you play D&D or some tweaked version of it.

I enjoy D&D. I don't want every game I play be a game of D&D but with a different coat of paint. So when I want something different, I actually play something different.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

And the title of the thread is very telling; it contains the word "versus". This has been framed as a contest.

The intent was comparison, not contest, but okay.

So yes.....this is saying that D&D is a better option to achieve a genre/feel/vibe than a game built with that specific genre/feel/vibe in mind.

But the text you quoted doesn’t say that, even by implication.

So when I want something different, I actually play something different.

No one has said you shouldn’t do so. I’ve explicitly said multiple times in this thread that I do, too. That is tangential to the question of whether D&D can accomplish the goals of a genre, theme, story type, etc, which is the point of the thread.

When I want something different, I do soemthing different. When I want to run a trapped environment monster horror story arc to jump off a new D&D campaign, that ask makes it pretty clear that “play Alien RPG” won’t actually be useful advice.