D&D 5E Do you think we'll see revised core books in 2024? (And why I think we will)

[Rikka66]

5e players don't think of home ownership as a goal for their characters. Instead they want...magic items? special powers? friends? to save a world that is always on the precipice of collapse?

I would say in general that owning a castle just never ended up being the the kind of appealing endgame goal for most players as it was for the early wargamers. It's a concept that's role has continuously diminished over decades.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the idea is, a generation is defined by their highschool experience. But that itself is kinda slippery. Might as well just go by decades, and just keep track of significant events during each decade.

I’d say a generation is defined more by their formative experiences, which can include high school but isn’t limited to it. For example, one of the biggest factors in millennials vs. Gen Z is their relationship with the internet.

 

[Marandahir]

Yes, but they won't be 6e.

They MIGHT be an informal 5.5e, though, in the sense of consolidating rule changes and revisions and clarifications from the last ten years.

In sort of the same way BECMI was to B/X and RC was to BECMI, and Player's Option was to 2e and Essentials to 4e.

 

[Mercurius]

I’d say a generation is defined more by their formative experiences, which can include high school but isn’t limited to it. For example, one of the biggest factors in millennials vs. Gen Z is their relationship with the internet.

OK, Boomer. JK. You're right - the internet (and social media) is a huge factor, but there are others. I kind of see it like a soup and one of the main ingredients is the internet, but the "broth" is the historical context as a whole. It is so complex, really. But, as you imply, we shouldn't downplay the significance of the internet, as the "Age of Information" and "Fourth Industrial Revolution." And the influence has both "positive" and "negative" effects, I would say.

 

[Yaarel]

Yep. And to add to this, Xers witnessed the idealism of the Boomers become commercialized ("selling out") in the 70s and 80s, and not adequately address the structural issues that existed.

This is a very good idea and would go a long way towards clearing up some of the confusion and conflict going on. Re-skinning "race" as "heritage" just shifts the goal-lines a bit and doesn't get at a central confusion: the differentiation between race (as a people, species or sub-scecies) and a specific culture, which is a confusion that goes back centuries and is a core factor in some of the problems we face today.

A race is a species or sub-species, subject to biology and, to some degree, history. A culture is a tradition built up over time, formed around ideological elements and subject to a wide number of factors. A race could have certain tendencies, but they are mostly/entirely based on biology, history and environment. A race "expresses itself" through those factors in the form of culture, but is not tied to any specific iteration of culture.

One is hardware, the other software (I don't love tech analogies as I think they reduce anything having to do with "soul" or "spirit," but I think the analogy works well enough in this case).

Or to put it more bluntly, an orc baby would be very different if raised within (the culture of) Lothlorien than in (the culture of) Mordor. They may still have certain "orcish" traits--say, greater strength and a (biologically-based) desire to eat meat, but their culture and attitudes would be very different.

WotC is edging in this direction but probably not going far enough, so we're going to keep on having these discussions about race vs. culture, which are largely based on the conflation of the two.

In other words, it would allow for people to use "traditional" D&D tropes like evil/brutish orcs by specifying it as their culture, but also separates the specific culture from the race, thereby defusing any racist connotations.

A complication in D&D is magic. For example, a culture can decide they all need to live underwater, and use magic to shapeshift gills. Species is a byproduct of culture. In D&D, there are many "races" that originate from cultural magic, such as Tiefling, Warforged, and Shadar-Kai.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I would say in general that owning a castle just never ended up being the the kind of appealing endgame goal for most players as it was for the early wargamers. It's a concept that's role has continuously diminished over decades.

I blame restrictive Castle Owners Association covenants.

 

[Mercurius]

A complication in D&D is magic. For example, a culture can decide they all need to live underwater, and use magic to shapeshift gills. Species is a byproduct of culture. In D&D, there are many "races" that originate from cultural magic, such as Tiefling, Warforged, and Shadar-Kai.

Yes, true, although in D&D, magic is natural - and thus part of life and biology. And there's no reason that some races can't be more or less tied to a specific culture, especially in the context of myriad game worlds. A culture might be very xenophobic and want to keep itself "pure," and perhaps disallow members to leave without severe penalty. I mean, we have this in our world in certain countries and cults. Another culture could be more cosmopolitan, allowing its members freedom of choice. And everything in-between.

So I wouldn't say that "species is a byproduct of culture" but that the two influence and form each-other. But the key point is that one is not tied to the other, in a similar manner that who you are is not your vocation; it is something you "inhabit" and identify with to certain degree, but is changeable, while your species is not (yet, at least!).

 

[Charlaquin]

OK, Boomer.

A fair critique, as I am one of the most “boomer” millennials I’ve ever met

 

[Yaarel]

Yes, true, although in D&D, magic is natural - and thus part of life and biology. And there's no reason that some races can't be more or less tied to a specific culture, especially in the context of myriad game worlds. A culture might be very xenophobic and want to keep itself "pure," and perhaps disallow members to leave without severe penalty. I mean, we have this in our world in certain countries and cults. Another culture could be more cosmopolitan, allowing its members freedom of choice. And everything in-between.

So I wouldn't say that "species is a byproduct of culture" but that the two influence and form each-other. But the key point is that one is not tied to the other, in a similar manner that who you are is not your vocation; it is something you "inhabit" and identify with to certain degree, but is changeable, while your species is not (yet, at least!).

But magic makes species changeable. There is little difference between deciding that everybody needs to learn to read and deciding that everybody needs to have wings.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I wonder how/if playstyles map on to the cultural assumptions of a particular era. One of the most apt things I've read about this is this (classic?) blog post, d&d is anti-medieval. The author writes


The fantasy was: earn (steal) gold, level up, build a home (on stolen land). Along the way There Will Be Blood. In 5e, there is no real use for gold, or at least, 5e players don't think of home ownership as a goal for their characters. Instead they want...magic items? special powers? friends? to save a world that is always on the precipice of collapse?

Very interesting points. I was just discussing with my wife that 5e doesn’t actually include “getting loot” as anything other than a presented play expectation that no one really questions. There are literally no mechanics that require or even really even strongly incentivize the pursuit of coin.

You can run 5e without ever including a magic item, or giving out more gold than the characters would earn as skilled/expert laborers, and...nothing else about the game changes.

I definitely think this both informs and is informed by the gaming/storytelling assumptions and priorities of millennial and genZ gamers. I know I haven’t seen any characters in 5e that were motivated by loot.