D&D General Critical Role Ending

[overgeeked]

I'd need some proof of that, it seems a bit questionable. They still use plenty of terms and spells that are not in the basic rules.

There's a difference between a troll and a beholder. The troll is generic and not under copyright, the beholder is unique and under copyright. The SRD lists what WotC considers Product Identity. On that list are "proper names (including those used in the names of spells or items)" followed by a long list of specific locations and characters and it finishes off with "beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanar’ri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan‑ti." Of that entire list, I think only beholders and illithid / mind flayers appeared in C1. I know displacer beasts and yuan-ti appeared in C2...but I don't remember if either were actually name dropped in the episodes.

On the other hand, I change the fluff, names (if I even give the name) and descriptions for monsters all the time so that it fits my vision. It has nothing to do with legalities.

There's also a huge difference between the level of scrutiny most DMs have to deal with and what Matt does on Critical Role. You can use whatever you want and call it whatever you want. No matter how much you violate someone's intellectual property, you're not going to get a call from anyone's lawyer. On CR the cast has to drink from unlabeled cups and they have to cover any logos because they're broadcasting to however many millions of viewers on a weekly basis. They have to follow much different IP rules than the rest of us.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There's a difference between a troll and a beholder. The troll is generic and not under copyright, the beholder is unique and under copyright. The SRD lists what WotC considers Product Identity. On that list are "proper names (including those used in the names of spells or items)" followed by a long list of specific locations and characters and it finishes off with "beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanar’ri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan‑ti." Of that entire list, I think only beholders and illithid / mind flayers appeared in C1. I know displacer beasts and yuan-ti appeared in C2...but I don't remember if either were actually name dropped in the episodes.

There's also a huge difference between the level of scrutiny most DMs have to deal with and what Matt does on Critical Role. You can use whatever you want and call it whatever you want. No matter how much you violate someone's intellectual property, you're not going to get a call from anyone's lawyer. On CR the cast has to drink from unlabeled cups and they have to cover any logos because they're broadcasting to however many millions of viewers on a weekly basis. They have to follow much different IP rules than the rest of us.

So, again, if this were the case, other actual play shows would have the same restrictions, and they clearly don’t.

Beyond that, the notion that Lucien is a beholder but Matt couldn’t say so because trademark is...an incredible leap, even if your general thesis were true. Lucien is clearly meant to remind the audience of a beholder, and an NPC even comments on the similarity, but Lucien is very clearly meant to be a whole thing unto himself.

What may be revealed, alluded to, or implied, by the end of things, is that Aeor is the origin point of Beholders in Exandria. So nonagons that don’t exert their own will like Lucien, and just collect eyes and go mad without ever reaching Aeor, eventually become Beholders.

But the notion that Matt wanted to use a beholder and just couldn’t is...wild.

 

[Mort]

So, again, if this were the case, other actual play shows would have the same restrictions, and they clearly don’t.

Beyond that, the notion that Lucien is a beholder but Matt couldn’t say so because trademark is...an incredible leap, even if your general thesis were true. Lucien is clearly meant to remind the audience of a beholder, and an NPC even comments on the similarity, but Lucien is very clearly meant to be a whole thing unto himself.

What may be revealed, alluded to, or implied, by the end of things, is that Aeor is the origin point of Beholders in Exandria. So nonagons that don’t exert their own will like Lucien, and just collect eyes and go mad without ever reaching Aeor, eventually become Beholders.

But the notion that Matt wanted to use a beholder and just couldn’t is...wild.

Also, Matt has ALREADY used a beholder as a BBEG.

So, I'm sure he wanted to evoke a beholder vibe but have something unique - without repeating himself.

 

[Jaeger]

3 of my 6 players have PHDs, 2 have engineering degrees and one has an undergraduate degree from Cal Tech. We've been playing 5e since it came out, yet rules hiccups still happen. One of my players still makes basic rules mistakes all the time, and he's been gaming for over 20 years.

And some members of my group have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express at one time or another.

Home groups are voluntary and unpaid good times.

CR are literally paid professionals.

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to notice that the paid professionals on CR are not delivering any higher standard than a home game.

That CR gets away with a home group standard...

Yeah Ok, more power to them. Ultimately I can't really hate on the hustle.

Don't they all have D&D beyond on their ipads? With the character right there?

D&D beyond is about as quick reference as you can get. All bonuses are front and center. All ability descriptions are front and center. Equipment is front and center and if you touch it, has exact descriptions.

The spell sheet not only lists all prepared spells with a short description but provides a longer description when touched.

Yeah, my experience with people that use these tools is obviously different than yours.

They seemed to spend much of their turn looking down and tapping at the screen...

I think they would have a difficult time distancing from 5e at this point. Sure they could do it, but it would be a risk. They seem to have set the format at 5e with occasional forays into other systems via one shot.

I am 100% sure they will never switch from D&D.

That being said, given they way they play, and the large number of players; CR as a streaming show would be better served by a bit lighter system.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Also, Matt has ALREADY used a beholder as a BBEG.

So, I'm sure he wanted to evoke a beholder vibe but have something unique - without repeating himself.

Exactly.

 

[billd91]

Home groups are voluntary and unpaid good times.

CR are literally paid professionals.

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to notice that the paid professionals on CR are not delivering any higher standard than a home game.

That CR gets away with a home group standard...

That's because it's still a home game at its fundamentals. They aren't paid professionals in the sense that they were hired to produce a streamed D&D game - rather, they were a home game that was hired to be streamed. They've broadened from there but the core is still much the same.

They've been able to significantly improve their technology and accessories, though, so I'd be willing to bet their integration of Dwarven Forge combat maps and miniatures is at a significantly higher standard than a home game.

 

[Iry]

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to notice that the paid professionals on CR are not delivering any higher standard than a home game.

It's hard to make observations about any player without running into Geek Social Fallacy #2, but I personally try to turn it around on myself. Would I start to feel bad if I've been playing for a year+ and my group has needed to remind me dozens of times about something? The answer for me is "Yes, absolutely" even if everyone else at my table was genuinely okay with it. The answer for other people is probably a spectrum.

 

[Mort]

And some members of my group have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express at one time or another.

Home groups are voluntary and unpaid good times.

CR are literally paid professionals.

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to notice that the paid professionals on CR are not delivering any higher standard than a home game.

But they ARE delivering at a higher standard. They're clearly clicking with an audience in a way that few (no?) other streams have. People very clearly identify with the way they engage with the game and each other. And people are willing to throw money at them at rarified levels.

It's just that the higher standard isn't from a rules perspective it's from a performance perspective - and clearly it's working. as was just stated above, it's essentially a home game at heart, warts and all - and that seems to be a big part of the appeal.

That CR gets away with a home group standard...

Yeah Ok, more power to them. Ultimately I can't really hate on the hustle.

Again, the point was to HAVE a home game that people actually like to watch. That was the appeal from the beginning. Felicia Day saw their actual home game and clearly thought "WOW this is something people have to see!" So while these guys are technically paid professionals, they started as paid professionals but not paid for this. It just turns out people want to watch them play.

Yeah, my experience with people that use these tools is obviously different than yours.

They seemed to spend much of their turn looking down and tapping at the screen...

There are some players no aid will help. At least it's better than someone flipping sheets around for minutes on end.

I am 100% sure they will never switch from D&D.

That being said, given they way they play, and the large number of players; CR as a streaming show would be better served by a bit lighter system.

There is clearly some magic that resulted from the mix of ingredients, changing to a "rules light" system may change something in that magic formula that could result in a worse show.

 

[overgeeked]

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to notice that the paid professionals on CR are not delivering any higher standard than a home game.

LOL. Wow. Your definition of “home game standards” is a bit skewed, I think. I had never seen any game come close to the level of CR. It’s such a higher standard than most of the hobby has ever encountered there’s a name for DMs trying to up their game to match. You might have heard of the Mercer Effect.

 

[CleverNickName]

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to notice that the paid professionals on CR are not delivering any higher standard than a home game.

That CR gets away with a home group standard...

Yeah Ok, more power to them. Ultimately I can't really hate on the hustle.

Ooof. Tall poppies, much?

I have a much different opinion of Critical Role and their standards of performance.