Jaegermonstrous
Swamp Cryptid
Yeah, it's not like I'm surprised. Just - y'know - disappointed.
D&D 5E celebrating pride and lgbtq+ players 2021
- Thread starter Henadic Theologian
- Start date
I have asked peoples for examples of things in-game where gender identity or sexual preference is relevant to the game or story and no one yet has provided any. Instead they have provided examples based in tropes which are not relevant to these things and only serve to reinforce stereotypes surrounding them.
I have stated if your games include graphic sex, graphic genitalia or biology surrounding reproduction then yes gender identity at least can be very relevant, and if you want to play those kinds of games I think you should. I am not saying you shouldn't. But I don't think that is a part of many games and they are the only examples I can think of where this would actually be relevant to something happening in the game.
Also I love WOTC, but their track record on inclusion is not very good when and where it really matters. From where I am sitting they want to pander and wave the flag and pretend that they are not part of the problem IRL society while implementing things into the game world that are irrelevant to the real world struggle against biggotry. If WOTC wants to be at the forefront of LGBTIA+ rights they should focus on LGBTIA+ rights at the headquarters in Renton Washington instead of at Blackstaff tower in Waterdeep.
Last edited:
Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
I honestly don't believe that, but I might as well give mine (taking place in a one-on-one campaign).
Say hello to Chance, my Changeling Hexblade Warlock (Pact of the Blade). Chance is pansexual, genderfluid, and nonbinary. Chance's whole schtick is being mutable, every aspect of them being subject to change whenever Chance wants to change it. That's why they're a Changeling, as they can choose to change their physical form at will, and why they have a Pact of the Blade (and the Improved Pact Weapon invocation), because they can also change their weapon into nearly any form of their liking. Chance also has obtained a Shiftweave, which helps even more to allow them to change into any form that they want to become. This is primarily so they can help their patron (the Vestige of Karsus) achieve his ultimate goal (restoring Netheril on Faerun, with Chance as the Empire's High-Sovereign, and Karsus as the Prime God of New Netheril), which takes a lot of deception, stealth, planning, and adaptability to achieve. Chance is adept at martial combat, spellcasting, and coercing others with their high Charisma score (20), which aids them in their goal.
There's nothing "porno" about Chance. Is Chance a good person? Absolutely not. They don't particularly like harming others or causing chaos, they just want to do whatever possible to serve their Patron's end goal. Has Chance's gender fluidity and non-binarity ever come up? Yes, definitely, as tends to happen with Changeling characters (at least at my tables). Has Chance's sexuality ever come up? Yes, it has, in a long side plot where Chance had to pretend to be a noble suitor to an heiress, which was necessary to expand New Netheril's influence and conquer Silverymoon (it was very difficult and Chance nearly died about 3 times). Has it ever became explicit/graphic? No. Absolutely not. Never in a million years. My DM is my younger cousin, so a) I would be uncomfortable bringing that up with him, b) he would be unwilling to make it explicit, c) I don't enjoy D&D having explicit sex, and d) the inclusion of typically not-represented sexualities and gender identities absolutely does not turn the game "porno" (and to say so is both showing of ignorance and highly offensive, even if it was not intended to be offensive and you don't think it was ignorant).
There. You have at least one direct and obvious example contradicting your stance/claims, as well as a firm rebuttal of my anecdotal experience against your unfounded claims.
You normalize them by not differentiating them. The game shoudl bee a safe space, not a place where people have to put up with the same stereotypes faced IRL.
No. This is exactly my point! There is no heterosexuality or homosexuality in that as you have described it. The first old lady could be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual. Same with the second. That you described them as a lady implys they are a woman but either of them could also be a cisgender woman, a transgender woman or a genderfluid woman.
Why do you have too say, imply or infer that the second old lady is a Lesbian? That is and would be irrelevant to the story. Why is sexual preference relevant to either of these?
Leave it as it is and go rescue the old lady's wife from the ogre without worrying about the preference or identity of either woman (or for that matter the Orge).
I reject the notion that any characters should even have a defined sexuality. There is no such thing (and should be no such thing) as playing a character of a "different sexuality" than you because sexuality is not relevant to anything at all that can happen in most games. The only time it becomes relevant is when you make it relevant through stereotypes.
If I am playing a heteroexual male character are you going to tell me as DM that I can't "fade to black" with an NPC man if I am a "heterosexual man". Are you going to tell me I should not wear a skirt if I am a cisgendered man?
Regarding gender; in general stereotypes surrounding gender do not come in games I have played in the last 15 years or so (they admittedly did before then). The difference is gender itself is relevant to the game and to the English language. Being a woman or a man is relevant to the story, but whether said person is cis or trans is not. Bringing in cis/trans as a further subdivision of specific genders only introduces stereotypes.
Last edited:
Vael
Legend
Threads about Pride always prove the need for Pride. It's axiomatic at this point
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Heh. Pride should be more like Valentines Day, romance, friends, fun, and parties.
Last edited:
There is nothing porno, but but as you described it, there is nothing pansexual, genderfluid or nonbinary about Chance either, except as specifically related to his/her organs and biology when he/she changes and if he/she was not a changeling even that would not be there.
Further Chance would be exactly the same character if "she" was a heterosexual cisgender man who preferred to use female gender pronouns.
Again no one has provided a case where this is RELEVANT in game.
You say his sexuality came up here. Can you explain the context, because nothing above in this quoted part would seem relevant to his sexuality. Again if Chance is a trasgender homosexual man, or a cisgender bisexual woman how does this story change? Are you suggessting he can't pretend to bee a noble suitor if that is the case? That he must be genderfluid and pansexual to do this?
Last edited:
J.Quondam
CR 1/8
I don't think it's necessarily primarily about relevance to game or story. It's more that identity is relevant to how a player imagines their character and that characters' place in the world. It's also that identities as (respectfully) presented throughout the game world more or less line up with the sorts of identities held/seen by the players themselves. And that a player can have a PC of a particular identity, and can express that identity in the game, and not be punished for it.
And I think that if those identities are included naturally in a game, then they actually do become relevant to the stories told in the game, just as surely as "traditional" relationships are relevant in a setting emulating Arthurian myth and its "traditional" notions of chivalry, or whatever.
But it's really not for you to reject or accept how/whether other players choose to set the identity on their characters, is it?
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
We haven't provided them because it's as absurd as if you claiming that your fantasy RPG games had never included swords.
BUUUUUT if you insist.
EXAMPLE 1:
I have run the module "My lady's Mirror" 3 times. There are plot elements that are spoilery, so let's see if I can hide them...
The PCs must deal with the aftermath of the breaking of a magical mirror while the owner, an arch-wizardress, is gone. Inside the mirror were several prisoners' who are running amock. some of those prisoners' are people who cheated on her, who wouldn't take no for an answer, or who wanted to magically seduce her noble husband away from her
As you can see, gender and sexuality was an important part of plot, as the PCs could interact, ally, deceive or be deceived by these NPCs, and understanding the NPCs motivations was important.
EXAMPLE 2:
In my Yoon-Suin campaign, there are slugmen. They are an artificial race, created from "normal" slugs. But they could still mate etc. So I wondered "well, how do slugs mate?" and it turns out that they are hermaphrodites. So in my game, about 90% of slugmen were nonbinary. However, about 10% leaned more one gender or another.
This was just background information for one player who wanted to play a slugman. About a year and a half in the campaign, she surprised me when she announced her character would have a baby with another NPC slugman. The sex was never described - I, as a GM, prefers that "the scene fades to black". But well it became a somewhat important plot point in the game.
