WotC 2020 Was The Best Year Ever For Dungeons & Dragons

[doctorbadwolf]

What I'm saying is that instead of giving logic and reason, counter arguments or justification for your opinion you're just dismissing it as "crapping on other people's ideas".

I don’t need to justify my opinion. It’s an opinion. A preference. I don’t owe anyone justification for it.

Particularly since I’m not crapping on anyone else’s preferences.

 

[GreyLord]

It would be interesting to see the research behind the numbers of WotC.

IF...that's a BIG IF...the numbers of WotC add up and they have 50 million players, with over 50% being Americans...that would mean with the average family...around 60% of American homes now or have had a D&D player.

Hmm...interesting claim on their part.

Is this PR...or is this reality?

I think it is based off of sales numbers, without accounting for multiple copies owned by single owners...but...we'd have to see the actual research values behind the claims to see if that's the source of some of the claims.

Of interest...around 50 million Xbox Ones have been sold...a majority to American homes as well.

Why is one much more able to find a cabinet of Xbox games in a department store than a D&D book?

Things to ponder.

At least they didn't claim PS4 numbers yet.

I tend to be a skeptic at times...not that I won't use the 50 million players number in the future (from another thread posted as 2020 being the best year ever)...but it is useful to compare similar numbers to others who have similar numbers and say...why does one seem FAR more popular in sales and popularity than the other?

Not that it is not true...just an interesting comparison.

Red Dead Redemption 2 apparently has only sold 37 million copies, and yet I can get a copy of that more easily anywhere in the US than I can a copy of D&D (especially once you start travelling through rural America).

Once again, especially centering on travelling through rural America, Witcher 3 only sold 30 million thus far, but I can still find copies of it far more easily than a D&D book...hmmm...things to ponder.

Just another comparison of interest...

AS I said, I'll probably use the 50 million player numbers in relation to popularity in other threads to bolster the popularity idea and argument for 5e...BUT...it should be good to look at this and question...

AND...on that note...if we assume just 25 million of those are new players for 5e....that means that the books have made at least 625 million dollars if only ONE copy of one book was sold to each of those players on average (Which probably would not hold true...more likely it would be an average of 2 books, or something like 1.73 books or something similar) which would make D&D currently a Billion dollar game.

 

[Parmandur]

It would be interesting to see the research behind the numbers of WotC.

IF...that's a BIG IF...the numbers of WotC add up and they have 50 million players, with over 50% being Americans...that would mean with the average family...around 60% of American homes now or have had a D&D player.

Hmm...interesting claim on their part.

Is this PR...or is this reality?

I think it is based off of sales numbers, without accounting for multiple copies owned by single owners...but...we'd have to see the actual research values behind the claims to see if that's the source of some of the claims.

Of interest...around 50 million Xbox Ones have been sold...a majority to American homes as well.

Why is one much more able to find a cabinet of Xbox games in a department store than a D&D book?

Things to ponder.

At least they didn't claim PS4 numbers yet.

I tend to be a skeptic at times...not that I won't use the 50 million players number in the future (from another thread posted as 2020 being the best year ever)...but it is useful to compare similar numbers to others who have similar numbers and say...why does one seem FAR more popular in sales and popularity than the other?

Not that it is not true...just an interesting comparison.

Red Dead Redemption 2 apparently has only sold 37 million copies, and yet I can get a copy of that more easily anywhere in the US than I can a copy of D&D (especially once you start travelling through rural America).

Once again, especially centering on travelling through rural America, Witcher 3 only sold 30 million thus far, but I can still find copies of it far more easily than a D&D book...hmmm...things to ponder.

Just another comparison of interest...

AS I said, I'll probably use the 50 million player numbers in relation to popularity in other threads to bolster the popularity idea and argument for 5e...BUT...it should be good to look at this and question...

AND...on that note...if we assume just 25 million of those are new players for 5e....that means that the books have made at least 625 million dollars if only ONE copy of one book was sold to each of those players on average (Which probably would not hold true...more likely it would be an average of 2 books, or something like 1.73 books or something similar) which would make D&D currently a Billion dollar game.

Going to my local Target, I can find the PHB, Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and two diffbox sets. I wouldn't be surprised if 60% of Americans had a D&D player in their family at this point, it's mainstream now.

 

[darjr]

Going to my local Target, I can find the PHB, Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and two diffbox sets. I wouldn't be surprised if 60% of Americans had a D&D player in their family at this point, it's mainstream now.

The other thing greylord conveniently forgets is that not every player needs to have bought anything.

 

[Oofta]

It would be interesting to see the research behind the numbers of WotC.

IF...that's a BIG IF...the numbers of WotC add up and they have 50 million players, with over 50% being Americans...that would mean with the average family...around 60% of American homes now or have had a D&D player.

Hmm...interesting claim on their part.

Is this PR...or is this reality?

I think it is based off of sales numbers, without accounting for multiple copies owned by single owners...but...we'd have to see the actual research values behind the claims to see if that's the source of some of the claims.

Of interest...around 50 million Xbox Ones have been sold...a majority to American homes as well.

Why is one much more able to find a cabinet of Xbox games in a department store than a D&D book?

Things to ponder.

At least they didn't claim PS4 numbers yet.

I tend to be a skeptic at times...not that I won't use the 50 million players number in the future (from another thread posted as 2020 being the best year ever)...but it is useful to compare similar numbers to others who have similar numbers and say...why does one seem FAR more popular in sales and popularity than the other?

Not that it is not true...just an interesting comparison.

Red Dead Redemption 2 apparently has only sold 37 million copies, and yet I can get a copy of that more easily anywhere in the US than I can a copy of D&D (especially once you start travelling through rural America).

Once again, especially centering on travelling through rural America, Witcher 3 only sold 30 million thus far, but I can still find copies of it far more easily than a D&D book...hmmm...things to ponder.

Just another comparison of interest...

AS I said, I'll probably use the 50 million player numbers in relation to popularity in other threads to bolster the popularity idea and argument for 5e...BUT...it should be good to look at this and question...

AND...on that note...if we assume just 25 million of those are new players for 5e....that means that the books have made at least 625 million dollars if only ONE copy of one book was sold to each of those players on average (Which probably would not hold true...more likely it would be an average of 2 books, or something like 1.73 books or something similar) which would make D&D currently a Billion dollar game.

Several issues here. You assume everyone buys books. Not everyone does.

The other odd thing is that you seem to assume somewhat even distribution which is not realistic. Both my wife and I play. My wife is running a game for my family which includes 4 nephews, all but one significant other and my sister (who joined mainly for family time).

Families like mine really skew the numbers. Similar to gun ownership, D&D tends to be clustered among groups of friends and family.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Several issues here. You assume everyone buys books. Not everyone does.

The other odd thing is that you seem to assume somewhat even distribution which is not realistic. Both my wife and I play. My wife is running a game for my family which includes 4 nephews, all but one significant other and my sister (who joined mainly for family time).

Families like mine really skew the numbers. Similar to gun ownership, D&D tends to be clustered among groups of friends and family.

Yeah, all four members of my family play D&D, although I'm the only one who buys anything other than dice. (My wife referred to last Christmas as "the year of dice," because everyone ended up getting dice or a dice bag from someone else in the family.)

 

[GreyLord]

Going to my local Target, I can find the PHB, Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and two diffbox sets. I wouldn't be surprised if 60% of Americans had a D&D player in their family at this point, it's mainstream now.

I can at target as well, but Target doesn't exist in much of Rural America. I can find all the other listed items in much of rural America where Target (or gamestores or book stores) does not exist...

Several issues here. You assume everyone buys books. Not everyone does.

The other odd thing is that you seem to assume somewhat even distribution which is not realistic. Both my wife and I play. My wife is running a game for my family which includes 4 nephews, all but one significant other and my sister (who joined mainly for family time).

Families like mine really skew the numbers. Similar to gun ownership, D&D tends to be clustered among groups of friends and family.

Only in the same way that I would assume the even distribution of a console or a video game. In truth, there are families with multiple consoles and in some cases multiple video games. In addition, digital distribution is probably BIGGER and MORE PREVALENT with video games than with D&D currently.

Which is where you should bring skepticism into the game...instead of accepting whatever is said. Where does this 50 million players number come from? The BEST guess I would have without them giving us information (And for PR, they won't) the best guess I have is that it is based upon sales of D&D books. I have not seen nor heard of any surveys regarding actual player numbers going out or being referenced, no studies on percentages or numbers, or any item similar (and Roll20 numbers or similar items are hardly acceptable reference points in the numbers they are talking about with regard to research on player numbers). The closest then would probably be based upon book sales (which appear to be quite robust).

PR statements like what we saw are NOT necessarily stating what is true, but how they can twist certain numbers to reflect what they want them to reflect. Without seeing the actual research or numbers it is based upon, it could mean anything.

HOWEVER, we DO know other items in entertainment which sell in similar numbers and how exposed they are in the market, how prevalent they are in society, and how easy they are to obtain by the general public with such sales numbers.

The skepticism arises when I see one comparable item (much less several, depending on how you read their numbers, are they simply saying they have 25 million players of D&D now and adding on the 25 estimated players of AD&D of yesteryear, or is it a different number) and see how much exposure it has in society today as well as availability compared to the item that is claiming similar numbers.

AS I said, I'll probably use the 50 million players number myself in other topics to bolster evidence that it is popular, but regarding the actual numbers...the evidence I see in the US and around the world (As I travel) don't seem to support their statements if taken at face value. One would have to see WHAT those numbers are based upon and I haven't seen that they are releasing the numbers or even how they arrived at those numbers.

 

[Parmandur]

I can at target as well, but Target doesn't exist in much of Rural America. I can find all the other listed items in much of rural America where Target does not exist...

Only in the same way that I would assume the even distribution of a console or a video game. In truth, there are families with multiple consoles and in some cases multiple video games. In addition, digital distribution is probably BIGGER and MORE PREVALENT with video games than with D&D currently.

Which is where you should bring skepticism into the game...instead of accepting whatever is said. Where does this 50 million players number come from? The BEST guess I would have without them giving us information (And for PR, they won't) the best guess I have is that it is based upon sales of D&D books. I have not seen nor heard of any surveys regarding actual player numbers going out or being referenced, no studies on percentages or numbers, or any item similar. The closest then would probably be based upon book sales (which appear to be quite robust).

PR statements like what we saw are NOT necessarily stating what is true, but how they can twist certain numbers to reflect what they want them to reflect. Without seeing the actual research or numbers it is based upon, it could mean anything.

HOWEVER, we DO know other items in entertainment which sell in similar numbers and how exposed they are in the market, how prevalent they are in society, and how easy they are to obtain by the general public with such sales numbers.

The skepticism arises when I see one comparable item (much less several, depending on how you read their numbers, are they simply saying they have 25 million players of D&D now and adding on the 25 estimated players of AD&D of yesteryear, or is it a different number) and see how much exposure it has in society today as well as availability compared to the item that is claiming similar numbers.

AS I said, I'll probably use the 50 million players number myself in other topics to bolster evidence that it is popular, but regarding the actual numbers...the evidence I see in the US and around the world (As I travel) don't seem to support their statements if taken at face value. One would have to see WHAT those numbers are based upon and I haven't seen that they are releasing the numbers or even how they arrived at those numbers.

Well, their market reach is proprietary, not peer-reviwed and published, yes. But they do conduct market research in the normal ways one does.

 

[darjr]

Starter sets have been in Walmart’s and other stores, there’s even photos on this very site, a couple I posted myself.

 

[GreyLord]

Starter sets have been in Walmart’s and other stores, there’s even photos on this very site, a couple I posted myself.

It depends on where you are, but yes, I have seen them in some Walmarts.

I've seen FAR more Witcher 3 (30 million sold, perhaps with families or couples that makes 50-60 million players?) games in Walmart around the nation than Starter Sets. Traveling right now, I'm in the middle of nowhere America. Today in the electronic section I saw Witcher 3 and Red Dead Redemption 2 (but no Xbox ones or One X's in stock, accessories though) but neither had any D&D material at all. In fact, none of the stores in the area had D&D for the most part. There IS a game store though that I have not been to that probably has a set or two. It looks to be open only in the evenings on certain days. It seems no other store probably would have D&D in a 100 mile radius of where I'm at right now, including "Walmart" except that game store. The video games I listed are available at several locations (not just Walmart) though, including 3 in the nearby town (one electronics store it appears, and ironically it seems they actually still have a game and dvd rental store...which is crazy to see) with more of these types of stores in the other towns within the 100 mile radius.