TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[Gradine]

This is again another pretty rude reply to what I said. What's up Gradine? You have an issue with me? Do we need to take this to a private conversation?

I'm sorry. It seemed to me like you were accusing me (and others, but I'll own my part in it) of "drowning out" the stuff you want to talk about and in fact seemed like was too political for this message board. And to make the point that it is incredibly easy to want to just talk about the games themselves and not the horrible comments their authors and publishers and artists have made when you are not, yourself, the target of those comments.

If I have misrepresented your position, I apologize. If I have appeared snarky (and I have been), it is because, if you had not noticed, this event and a multitude of others have sort of brought me to my breaking point, multiple times. My Twitter DMs are filled with death threats. So I hope that you can understand and forgive me that, when I see someone looking to sweep aside the issues that are pretty damn important to me, I am not able to maintain my full composure. Again, sorry if I did, in fact misrepresent your position.

 

[Black Dougal]

I think saying, have patience for change to come is short of what I intend. I think a lot of people are in the boat like me that does not move as fast as some would want. I do not think that anyone in these groups should stop pushing for their ideals and equality. I do not even know what some of the acronyms are that people are using and need to look them up and not sure when I would be comfortable using them in the right context.

Not sure if this helps or if there are others in the same group as me.

I like this here and can apply it to myself as well. I'm quite the opposite, I grew up spent most of my life in Philly and now live in Denver. I was exposed to tons of diversity, and I'm a white dude approaching middle age or maybe I am already (47) lol. I've always tried to have an open mind and learn. Which is basically what you're saying, and I think that may be the best we can do. I've said things and been corrected, I've asked questions and realized afterward that I sounded like a total jerk or clueless weirdo haha. We have a lot to learn and I think that's ok, we have people to teach us online and resources at our fingertips.

I know tons of LGTBQ+ people in real life and rpg life and even guys like me have tons to learn. That's what I think separates a lot of humans, some of us might be clueless and curious so we learn whereas some folks double down and dig deeper holes.

I figure everyone deserves decency, rights, liberty, happiness, etc. I feel for me it's learning more about "etiquette" if that is even a good word to use. As mentioned I've said things and been called on it, of course, I did not mean to be a jerk but I was corrected and learned something. Sometimes lessons are hard but they lead to growth, wisdom, and empathy...I try my best always to be empathetic.

I am learning from this thread right now.

 

[MGibster]

As a seven percenter, no, scratch that, as an elder statesman, it warms the cockles of my heart to see a greater diversity of players compared to what I observed when I was younger. As a teenager, my D&D games were overwhelmingly composed of straight white adolescents not too dissimilar to myself. And when I went to what few local conventions/events were in my area or the local game store I once again saw a bunch of people who looked an awful lot like me with few exceptions. I ran a game back in 2018 where I was the only white person at the table and only half of us were straight and that reality is something my 15 year old self wouldn't have conceived of.

I've made it quite clear in numerous threads that I don't care for all the changes made to D&D over the years. But somehow D&D 5th edition is my favorite edition. I do on occasion look back with fondness on my AD&D gaming days, but such reflections are usually focused on friends I no longer see regularly and the good times we had in Castle Ravenloft, at Barrier Peaks, and just how many goddamn pole arms there were during the medieval period. I've never had a transgender player at my table but I don't imagine it would be any more difficult to include them than it was to include my black, gay, lesbian, or bisexual friends. I'm still creating game memories I'll look back upon fondly in a few years.

 

[Umbran]

Umbran, what I said could not be fairly dismissed as "well that's all legal stuff which we have no information about".

Your disagreement is noted.

 

[Gradine]

Of course, if what you (and this is a general you at this point) would like to do is discuss something like Giantlands and how you're looking forward to it and are curious about what's going to be in (you know, the type of discussion we have about most products not created/published by bigots) without having to discuss said creatives' bigotry or, I don't know be able to support it without having to think about said bigotry, well, as I've explained at least once in one of these threads, I have a pretty vested interest in making sure that's not seen as okay. The success of these individuals/products would harm me and many of the people I love in significant and measurable ways.

 

[Ancalagon]

Yes, and no.
There are muslims who attack poeple in the street, and do kill non muslims. Are all muslims hateful? Of course not.
You just fell into the same pit trap that many do. You associate individuals with their society/affiliations and you should not do that. Ever.

Ok, you need to re-read. (on devrait tu faire ca en francais?). Where did I imply that? You've created a position I never took, and then claim I fell into a trap.

I am talking about bigots. You are the one who made the equivalence between the action of people who want to cancel products and bigots. YOU chose the word bigots btw. Let us revisits what you said:

And at the same time, he/she/they who use cancellation instead of discussion are doing the exact same thing as the bigots are doing. And when you use the same weapons as your opponents, you become no better that they are.

(emphasis added)

You are comparing the actions of people who are upset about a content creator and don't want to support his product, to the action of bigots - WHO DO FAR WORSE THAN NOT BUY BOOKS. This is what you said. This is your position. Is this what you mean, or again, is this a translation error?

 

[Mistwell]

Ok, let's talk about it!


People who take money from kickstarters and don't deliver strike me as grifters. I understand it can be complicated, but there have been tons of osr (and 5e, and Indie) kickstarters that have opened and fulfilled during a pandemic. Shipping internationally. With open communication throughout.

Agreed. I am one of the people who bought into Marmoreal Tomb. And while I still have hopes a worthy product will come out from it thanks to Troll Lords intervening, I really quite regret my money being held for over 5 years after it was supposed to be delivered. It's taught me to only invest in people who have a reputation for delivering on time, like Morrus and Monte Cook.

Further, it's really sleazy to take a trademark out from under someone else and then license it back to them. Maybe he thinks it's his family's heritage but it's really not.

I was particularly bothered that he acted like he was being gracious and magnanimous in selling the license back to the guy he just swiped it from for $10 a year rather than doing what most decent human beings would do in that situation. Which is call his "friend" and let him know it was about to expire, and failing that selling it back to him for whatever the cost of the renewal fee might be.

So, "politics" aside, Ernie Gygax does not seem like a very nice person! He says he loves to laugh. Is he laughing at his backers?

I don't know if he is a very nice person. I've seen a few people who know him "in real life" say he's a decent guy who just puts his foot in his mouth sometimes. But what I've seen from him in an online context makes me think he's not such a good guy. He was pretty rude in dismissing his "investors" in the kickstarter, and even leaving out the politics of it the method he chose to convey his views were pretty rude and would have been pretty dismissive even if he had been talking about something more non-controversial like land use planning.

Nu-TSR can be an object lesson of everything not to do, I guess.

They have youtube channels with tens to hundreds of followers


dnd is more popular than it ever was and the osr is producing very creative, high quality products. We don't need a new tsr, run by anyone. It's just a brand, one with not much value

I don't know about that. I mean yes at this point the TSR brand is done for good I think (though I have no idea what things will be like in 20 years, it's surely done for the next many years). But I do think brand names have power, and things which evoke a sense of old school have power. I do wonder if a new company composed of some old TSR people (not this set) which, for instance, bought the licensing to the Greyhawk intellectual Property and called themselves Oerth, Inc. or something like that might not do well.

 

[Lanefan]

No I was asking if anything more was to be gained from it. I have read the thread I just appear to have missed a single post in the thread. And I didn't even say I have nothing more to gain from it either. I also said those are all topics worth discussing but, as it had been stated there was no way to talk about it without those things being the focused, I listed other aspects of the topic which I also thought were worth discussing.

Is it possible the post(s) you missed were made by someone you've blocked, or who has blocked you?

Would certainly explain the confusion...

 

[Gradine]

I also didn't want to get into this point, but since it was brought up again...

It is so very, very easy to ask others to be patient in their quest for justice and equity and respect when you don't have friends and loved onces being assaulted and murdered and bullied into completing suicide. It's super easy to ask for patience when it's not the merits of your humanity that must be put up to reasoned and rational debate, and whether being able to play a frakking game in peace is more important than having to think about all of that.

Edit: Patience isn't going to bring Near back

 

[Mistwell]

Of course, if what you (and this is a general you at this point) would like to do is discuss something like Giantlands and how you're looking forward to it

I am not necessarily looking forward to it. Certainly at this point I very seriously doubt I'd touch anything relating to this company. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind hearing about the fantasy concepts which people might enjoy which came from that setting?

and are curious about what's going to be in (you know, the type of discussion we have about most products not created/published by bigots) without having to discuss said creatives' bigotry or, I don't know be able to support it without having to think about said bigotry, well, as I've explained at least once in one of these threads, I have a pretty vested interest in making sure that's not seen as okay. The success of these individuals/products would harm me and many of the people I love in significant and measurable ways.

I am in no way encouraging anyone to buy anything from this company or anyone related to that company. That doesn't make a topic which discusses a fantasy post-apocalypse like this one a bad one though. Giantlands apparently involves mutants as changelings in a world of shattered ruins. That seems like an interesting topic in itself, doesn't it?