TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Not really. That US NGO (Southern Poverty Law etc) that keeps track of online hate speech noted a while ago it pushes it underground.

But it gets more extreme and violent. Not so much this board in particular more the whole cancel idea.

Sure. That doesn't mean it's never good to remove someone who is being an issue from any social group, but it does mean that ostracism should be a last(ish) resort. There are certain contexts where some folk seemed to embrace social ostracism as a panacea, and making it a panacea is a great way to radicalize the merely problematic into the out-and-out deranged.

But that's all a conversation to be had over how to deal with a different culture wars kerfuffle. Not excluding someone only has a positive result if they are at least somewhat keen to avoid being stigmatized within the group that continues to tolerate them. And TSR3s post-interview controversy social media wild ride was not one of regret (not even self-serving, "sorry I got called out" regret) but one of largely unabashed doubling-down. That makes it seem that, at least so far, they'd rather be pariahs than reflect on themselves, and that, unfortunately, is the sort of people who are not going to be particularly edified by being given room for grace, growth, or redemption.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

I don't know if that's necessarily a fair statement. I mean, I get how for many people, moral relativity and being "a product of the time" is a real thing. I just don't think it's a real thing that we should automatically assume someone isn't progressive based on age.

the older I get, the more progressive I get, and I'm getting close to 50. There are plenty of progressive older people. Ernie's also been around the gaming community his whole life (more progressive people than the general public I imagine) and hasn't been living under a rock. These comments are his choice, and he's choosing to hang out with toxic people and making more and more exclusionary statements as time passes. I'm not saying he has to be a tree hugging liberal, but he's going down an unfortunate path.

Prolly needs to be "product of their time and place
Not just when but where

Ernie is a product of the 1970s smalltown midwest
Did we really expect someone raised by Gary "random harlot table" Gygax to be enlightened n work?

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

It implies that if you are over a certain age, you can't be woke. I could list off hundreds of historical figures that were woke (albeit that term is newish).

Not "can't"
Just not expected
Or surprising if they're a humanoid trash fire

 

[Sacrosanct]

Prolly needs to be "product of their time and place
Not just when but where

Ernie is a product of the 1970s smalltown midwest
Did we really expect someone raised by Gary "random harlot table" Gygax to be enlightened n work?

I grew up in rural eastern Oregon on a farm to religious conservative parents. I remember my dad saying when The Cosby Show aired, "Why do black people need to have their own show? That's stupid. We don't have a whites only show."

Yeah....

And again, I'm almost 50, and Ernie doesn't live under a rock. Sure his influences had an impact. But they are the same influences Luke, Elise, and Heidi had, and they aren't that way.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

My dad is in his 70s, spent his entire adult life in the army, and doesn't care what sexuality or gender people are. He may not understand it, but as long as they are happy and aren't hurting people, it doesn't bother him.

Would you say he is representative of his demographic?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Back on topic:

There’s a story I won’t post verbatim because it contains language not appropriate for this site. It goes essentially like this:

Michael Taeger, a journalist, was reminiscing about his early days in “The Big City” at a particularly low-end punk bar. A guy walked in, said some hellos, tried to order a drink…and was almost immediately thrown out on the bartender’s orders. Not having noticed any particularly offensive actions, the reporter asked the bartender why he had the guy ejected.

He explained, ”You couldn’t see them, but was wearing some Nazi patches on his clothes. Doesn’t matter how nice HE was, you let him stay, he’ll invite friends. Some will be well-behaved Nazis like him, so you let THEM stay. And eventually, you’ll look up and you have a bar full of Nazis.”

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Last week an active NFL player came out as gay. He has received a lot of support, including from the NFL, who put out this short video today:



Maybe TTRPGs need one of these too.

Oh, don't read the Youtube comments on this or you may lose even more faith in the average human.

 

[Sacrosanct]

There’s a story I won’t post verbatim because it contains language not appropriate for this site. It goes essentially like this:

Michael Taeger, a journalist, was reminiscing about his early days in “The Big City” at a particularly low-end punk bar. A guy walked in, said some hellos, tried to order a drink…and was almost immediately thrown out on the bartender’s orders. Not having noticed any particularly offensive actions, the reporter asked the bartender why he had the guy ejected.

He explained, ”You couldn’t see them, but was wearing some Nazi patches on his clothes. Doesn’t matter how nice HE was, you let him stay, he’ll invite friends. Some will be well-behaved Nazis like him, so you let THEM stay. And eventually, you’ll look up and you have a bar full of Nazis.”

The reverse is also true, and why I stopped going to certain forums years ago.

To continue the example, if you go to a bar that accepts and welcomes Nazis, and keep going, then it sends a message that you're ok with the company of Nazis, even if you say you're not one yourself.

Besides, who needs that aggravation?

It's also why I don't put much stock into the "I'm not racist, I just believe in free speech." excuse. If you keep letting racists smear feces all over your walls, that does two things. 1. Makes non racists leave and 2. Makes people start to think you support those ideals. Which usually ends up being the case IME.

 

[DammitVictor]

Meanwhile, other people have to work 5x as hard to make it half as far if they don't have those connections, if they weren't in the right place at the right time, or, yes, if they lack the above because of structural inequality. It is a frustrating dynamic, one that resonates far beyond the hobby.

It sucks. First chances should come before second chances, and in a just world a person's words and deeds would be judged on their own merits alone. But, as much as I want to give everyone the first chance they deserve... I'm going to keep advocating for people to get the second chances they don't deserve, because everyone involved in this farce could actually help make the gaming industry better by simply deciding to stop making things worse.

If we don't believe people can get better, where do we get off demanding them to?

Well the record of history is more relevant than whether you’ve met mass murderers.

Record of history is that those men were tyrants and murderers, sexists and racists and violent authoritarians. Those are objective facts, and I'm not denying them. The world's a better place because they're not in it anymore. I believe that strongly enough that I will treat it as an objective fact, even though I know better.

All of those men did some good in their lives, and that's proof they could have done more. They could have done less bad. Same is true of any human life.

There's no such thing as Evil. It's something that is neither factually true nor practically useful to believe in.

And the historical record is mighty unspecific on the matter of how any of them tasted.

People love the idea of lapsed trademarks to once valuable brands just being up for grabs, but if you want to use someone's old trademark and actually be secure in your rights you'd better cut them or their heirs in interest a check if you intend to actually use the trademark in a field where that brand was ever valuable. Courts want to keep words open for usage in commerce but they have no particular desire to help some rando profit off of someone else's brand ggoodwill.

Yeah. People, especially gamers, get tripped up on the law because they think real lawyers work like rules lawyers and you can get whatever you want by being too stupid to understand you're wrong. See it all the time. Gonna see a lot of it if LaNasa follows through on his threats to sue-- checks notes-- everyone.

Another difference between rules lawyers and real lawyers is real lawyers bill by the hour.

 

[System Mastery]

Firstly, I don’t believe it’s correct for anyone to insult any other group of people. But, I don’t see why everyone has to continually declare that Black Lives Matter or Trans Lives Matter all the time to reassure people that they aren’t bigots. Comparatively few people proclaim on a daily basis that we should not destroy the planet with waste and pollution but they aren’t “cancelled”. Games should be designed for the masses rather than the minorities. Care should be taken that they are inclusive but the focus seems to be very off nowadays. Games shouldn’t be about politics and agendas.

Most people, as you've probably noticed, don't receive early demands to say these things when they announce Kickstarters and stuff. You might be wondering what the difference is between Ernie and most people, but I'm sure you actually aren't because you watched the interview or read the transcript by now and saw that he said gender roles were an important part of his company for some reason.

Before I came out as bi, my dad was pretty bigoted, but in that "Well he's old and he just rants at home about it" way. Occasionally when he would say some Fox News BS about gay marriage or whatever, I'd ask him to confirm, or say something like "You don't really mean that, right dad?" Was I demanding that he change his worldview in public? I was not. I wanted my dad to be better so I would think better of him, because my dad is important to me. Similarly, a lot of people who are asking Ernie to say something here want to believe he just misspoke and want him to know it sure looks like he said something awful, would he like to walk that back perhaps? Imagine being actually excited about TSR coming back and also being queer in some way, and the first thing you learn about TSR coming back is Ernie saying some dogwhistly crap about the woke mob. You still want to be excited, but holy cow it's an uphill battle now. Maybe he didn't mean it? Better ask!

And of course what's happening is that A) Of course he meant it, and B) He's not mannning their twitter anyway, a crazy person who makes his female employees wrestle for promotions is. And thus a fight is born.