D&D General D&D monsters that have been changed the most over time

[Mind of tempest]

When did it actually happen?

The first time I really came across the idea that they were really associated with dragons was Dragon Mountain, in 1993, but it seemed like it wasn't an entirely new concept then. And the Monstrous Manual from the same year (both this and Dragon Mountain illustrated in part by the incredible DiTerlizzi, offering us both flat-faced and ratlike visions of kobolds) doesn't mention dragons.

Yet by 3E, kobolds are solidly little dragon-people.

3e races of the dragon or so I have been told.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

3e races of the dragon or so I have been told.

I mean it necessarily predates that, because out of the gate in 3E they're described as speaking Draconic and look like little dragon-people (as opposed to weird horned flat-flaced mini-goblins or rat-people as they typically were in 2E). So the changeover is probably formalized by 3E but pretty much had to happen in 2E between 1993 and 1999.

 

[Shiroiken]

When did it actually happen? When I started D&D, kobolds were like, goblins, if goblins were too hardcore/dangerous for you.

The first time I really came across the idea that they were really associated with dragons was Dragon Mountain, in 1993, but it seemed like it wasn't an entirely new concept then. And the Monstrous Manual from the same year (both this and Dragon Mountain illustrated in part by the incredible DiTerlizzi, offering us both flat-faced and ratlike visions of kobolds) doesn't mention dragons.

Yet by 3E, kobolds are solidly little dragon-people.

I think they started associating kobolds as minions of dragons during mid-2E, but they were still the same semi-goblinoids. If there was any change in late 2E, I didn't see it. My first view of the draconic kobolds was the 3E MM, to which my response was WTF?!?

 

[Scott Christian]

Orcs...
I would love to hear what people think are some causal factors. I think WoW had something to do with it, but wouldn't place money on it.

 

[Tonguez]

I think they started associating kobolds as minions of dragons during mid-2E, but they were still the same semi-goblinoids. If there was any change in late 2E, I didn't see it. My first view of the draconic kobolds was the 3E MM, to which my response was WTF?!?

Yeah I remember much discussion about that redesign when 3e MM came out, I beleive it was a deliberate design decision to make Kobolds different from goblins and lean hard into a reptilian nature.

EDIT: According to the Kobold (D&D) entry in Wikipedia in 1993 the Urds (batwinged Kobolds) were introduced which is what inspired the more draconic depiction. In 2003 Bioware included a kobold in Neverwinter Nights Hordes of the Underdark expansion pack named Deekin Scalesinger, a follower of the white dragon Tymofarrar who becomes a Dragon Disciple.

As to Gnolls Lord Dunsany wrote a short story called "How Nuth Would Have Practised His Art upon the Gnoles" so I always thought Gnoll came from that, unfortunately Dunsany does give much description of his Gnoles except But the gnoles had watched him though knavish holes that they bore in trunks of the trees, and the unearthly silence gave way, as it were with a grace, to the rapid screams of Tonker as they picked him up from behind — screams that came faster and faster until they were incoherent.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Orcs...
I would love to hear what people think are some causal factors. I think WoW had something to do with it, but wouldn't place money on it.

honestly, it was a lot of things that changed orc over a great period of time, the green coming from Warhammer.

Yeah I remember much discussion about that redesign when 3e MM came out, I beleive it was a deliberate design decision to make Kobolds different from goblins and lean hard into a reptilian nature.

As to Gnolls Lord Dunsany wrote a short story called "How Nuth Would Have Practised His Art upon the Gnoles" so I always thought Gnoll came from that, unfortunately Dunsany does give much description of his Gnoles except But the gnoles had watched him though knavish holes that they bore in trunks of the trees, and the unearthly silence gave way, as it were with a grace, to the rapid screams of Tonker as they picked him up from behind — screams that came faster and faster until they were incoherent.

sounds more like a monkey than anything else.

 

[pogre]

One abrupt change I recall was how the lamia, which up until 4E had been a centaurian lion-woman, was now suddenly in 4E a woman who turned into a swarm of beetles. (I'm not sure what a 5E lamia is like.)

Johnathan

They are back to the lioness centaur form.

Undead are a lot less scary with no level-draining attacks. don't get me wrong - I am glad for the change it was not fun.

 

[Thunder Brother]

so giant fae minotaurs?

Basically, although from a quick google image search I see that none of cow-firbolgs are depicted with horns. Curious.

I wonder if the CR fan art interpretation will slowly become the official look in the future. I guess there's an audience for "cute" minotaurs.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Basically, although from a quick google image search I see that none of cow-firbolgs are depicted with horns. Curious.

I wonder if the CR fan art interpretation will slowly become the official look in the future. I guess there's an audience for "cute" minotaurs.

Irish giants have always been a bit different what with their ancestor being Balar who was odd to look at.

 

[GuyBoy]

Orcs or oinks?