D&D General Has D&D abandoned the "martial barbarian"?

[le Redoutable]

let's try to explain, using my version of Encounter type:
is this meant to permit an Overriding ?
nope
is this a Challenge ( that is, a puzzle to resolve ) ?
nope
is this purposed to Help, or to Support someone ?
nope
is this meant to Intimidate ?
nope
so, it must be relative of Luck ( with a little bit of Luck I could get understood )

 

[le Redoutable]

so, historically speaking, Barbarian is insulting, perhaps Downgrading ( french réducteur )

if so, it is like the class of Assassin : you don't spend the day assassinate people, so it is downgrading ( and not worth the term of Class )

 

[Northern Phoenix]

so, historically speaking, Barbarian is insulting, perhaps Downgrading ( french réducteur )

if so, it is like the class of Assassin : you don't spend the day assassinate people, so it is downgrading ( and not worth the term of Class )

The word Barbarian has its origins as an insult, but the positive use of the term that exists mostly in fantasy fiction (such as DnD) comes from Conan writer Howard, and others of his era of fantasy, who wrote stories where being a "savage" was a source of strength and conviction, and being from "advanced" civilization was the source of decadence and other weaknesses.

 

[MGibster]

I think I want to push back that that. In other places, "generic" does not mean, "adequately mimics all specifics." Generic rather means "not terribly specific itself".

I'm not too worried about D&D not adequately mimicking all specifics. What I mean is that D&D is full of things that are very specific to it that I like to call D&Disms. The strong divide between divine and arcane magic is one such example as is the Barbarian class as discussed in this particular thread. I don't consider it a dig against D&D. After all, I don't complain that Star Wars isn't Star Trek, but at some point I came to the conclusion that D&D isn't really generic fantasy.

 

[le Redoutable]

Ah! Star Wars :
1° Jedi are Low Level Super Heroes
2° You can't destroy a planet ( à la Dragon Ball Z ) because a planet is a Celestial Body, and ( remember Ariel in DB Z ? ) it surely can teleport away a dangerous foe, disappear from detection etc
3° Yoda , with his " don't try it, do it " and " to Help You I can " lead to Luke losing ( like a thief caught by the police in some countries ) his hand
4° Lazer Swords ( particularly when Luke gains proficiency using a drone which empowers him to handle etc )
5° Dark Vador says, when Chewbacca ( SW ep5 ) is captured, " no disintegration "

 

[Northern Phoenix]

I'm not too worried about D&D not adequately mimicking all specifics. What I mean is that D&D is full of things that are very specific to it that I like to call D&Disms. The strong divide between divine and arcane magic is one such example as is the Barbarian class as discussed in this particular thread. I don't consider it a dig against D&D. After all, I don't complain that Star Wars isn't Star Trek, but at some point I came to the conclusion that D&D isn't really generic fantasy.

Well, that's a concept that comes straight from real life. There has always been a distinction between the miracles of saints, and unholy sorcery/witchcraft.

 

[le Redoutable]

using the force, from Star Wars D6, is a very powerful system
( I won"t be able to print it here because I have only the french version and I wouldn't mistype the system )

 

[le Redoutable]

Well, that's a concept that comes straight from real life. There has always been a distinction between the miracles of saints, and unholy sorcery.

eh!
you mean there are 7 Heaven , 1 ground Level and 9 Hells ?
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0
-1
-2
-3
-4
-5
-6
-7
-8
-9

 

[Steampunkette]

Well, that's a concept that comes straight from real life. There has always been a distinction between the miracles of saints, and unholy sorcery/witchcraft.

That's really only in Christianity, though, NP. And certainly doesn't apply to Conan.

Thoth Amon, the Necromancer, the Sorcerer, was a Priest of Set. Sorcery and Priesthood often went hand-in-hand because the Gods were the source of magic. It was only the method and the result that determined whether it was miracle or sorcery.

 

[Northern Phoenix]

That's really only in Christianity, though, NP. And certainly doesn't apply to Conan.

Thoth Amon, the Necromancer, the Sorcerer, was a Priest of Set. Sorcery and Priesthood often went hand-in-hand because the Gods were the source of magic. It was only the method and the result that determined whether it was miracle or sorcery.

Well, and Islam and all the connected religions too. But in fantasy, there are certainly fantasy settings and stories where it isn't the case, but I'd hardly call it a "DnDism". You could say that DnDs specific framing of it was popularized through it's influence on later fantasy, though.