D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

[Laurefindel]

I would add that while @Ovinomancer ’s interpretation wouldn’t fly in real life, I would totally buy it in a fantasy context. Rangers are supposed to be masters of the wilderness, so they should be able to perform extraordinary feats in their favored terrain.

... and to be fair with @Ovinomancer, when I'm driving with the family and my wife says "we're lost, aren't we? I told you to update your google app!", replying with "I'm not lost, I know exactly how to get back home!" is usually met with... frown. Yeah, let's go with frown.

I still think that's not the definition of "lost" that is applicable in this case, but I did get lost quite a few times according to their definition.

 

[TheSword]

I would add that while @Ovinomancer ’s interpretation wouldn’t fly in real life, I would totally buy it in a fantasy context. Rangers are supposed to be masters of the wilderness, so they should be able to perform extraordinary feats in their favored terrain.

Not at level one they aren’t.

They just are very good at knowing their location and direction at any given point using a variety of navigation methods.

 

[iserith]

Important to remember that "lost" means something specific in this context - you go in the wrong direction than intended and it takes 1d6 hours to get back on track.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Not at level one they aren’t.

They just are very good at knowing their location and direction at any given point using a variety of navigation methods.

No, they are infallible at it. Even dispensing with the side argument about what lost means, if we go with the concept it means you can't lose your way if you know where you're going, then nothing aside from magic can cause a 1st level ranger to fail to navigate 100% successfully. They are not "good" at this, they are perfect.

 

[TheSword]

No, they are infallible at it. Even dispensing with the side argument about what lost means, if we go with the concept it means you can't lose your way if you know where you're going, then nothing aside from magic can cause a 1st level ranger to fail to navigate 100% successfully. They are not "good" at this, they are perfect.

A flooded river would stop them navigating successfully… or a forest fire. They don’t get lost, but that doesn’t extend to circumventing obstacles. A vital part of navigating is the act of moving from A to B. Knowing the direction you should travel is not the same as getting there.

 

[Lanefan]

Tautological. To know the way I must first know the way.

Let's say I want to go to place X, but I don't know where place X is. I could get maps or ask directions to X. I could strike out blindly in a direction, though. If I do the latter, the descriptive term for my journey in relation to getting to place X would be lost -- even if I'm headed in the right direction.

I kinda disagree; in that as long as you know where you are in relation to something (your start point, or a landmark or waypoint, or whatever) such that you can easily find your way back out and-or to other known locations, you're not truly lost.

Let's reverse it. If you're looking for your key ring in your house and you can't find it, it's not you who's lost; it's the key ring.

Same is true on a bigger scale: if you know where you are but you're looking for place X and you don't know where it is, it's not you that's lost, it's place X.

 

[Lanefan]

No, they are infallible at it.

Under ideal and predictable conditions.

But as @TheSword points out, conditions aren't always ideal; and while knowing the best path is one thing, being able to take that best path here and now today might be another thing entirely.

I mean, look no further than the old trope of being chased off course by a monster; you escape the monster just fine but now have no idea where you are*. Very similar to a ship being blown off course by a storm at sea and becoming lost.

* - and rules be damned, I don't think I'd allow the mere presence of a low-level Ranger to negate this possibilty; though having a Ranger along would certainly help speed up the regain-your-bearings process.

Even dispensing with the side argument about what lost means, if we go with the concept it means you can't lose your way if you know where you're going, then nothing aside from magic can cause a 1st level ranger to fail to navigate 100% successfully. They are not "good" at this, they are perfect.

Perfection, here and elsewhere, is the enemy of fun.

 

[Faolyn]

I would add that while @Ovinomancer ’s interpretation wouldn’t fly in real life, I would totally buy it in a fantasy context. Rangers are supposed to be masters of the wilderness, so they should be able to perform extraordinary feats in their favored terrain.

Yeah, that should really be an actual ranger trait. Kind of an innate commune with nature or find the path ability.

 

[Ovinomancer]

A flooded river would stop them navigating successfully… or a forest fire. They don’t get lost, but that doesn’t extend to circumventing obstacles. A vital part of navigating is the act of moving from A to B. Knowing the direction you should travel is not the same as getting there.

Then they immediately know another way. This is a strange argument though, because it presupposes the GM has laid a barrier specifically to deal with the ranger's ability and then is also making the ruling that the ranger has to walk into it.

Also:
Characters:
Fred, the Paladin, leader of the group.
Bob, the Ranger, who is a Ranger.
Assorted other party members who have no lines.

"Okay, so we're agreed. We're headed to the Desolate Keep of Desolation, which the map says is along this road until we get to Hanging Tree and then we turn left into the Dreaded Forest of Annoying Thistles. Sound good? Cool, let's get going... hey, where are you going Bob, the road's this way."
Bob grunts as he shoulder his pack on the way into the woods -- away from the road.
"Bob, BOB! Stop. We're not going that way, we need to go down the road."
Bob stops and sighs.
"Are you blind?"
"What? No, what's that... what's going on?! We need to go down the road."
"You can't."
"What? Of course we can, it's right here! Make sense, Bob!"
"The bridge is out."
Fred sputters. "What?! How on earth do you know that? It's a day's hike away!"
"Like I said, are you blind? Did you not notice the Red Tufted Darter that flew past while we made breakfast?"
"Red.. tufted... what?"
Bob sighs again. "Okay, look, the Red Tufted Darter only lives in ground burrows in the deciduous forests around the Narrows Bridge. This is because they only eat the nectar from the Polystem plant that only grows in that small region due to the soil acidity. Now, if we're seeing a Red Tufted Darter here, this far west, it's because the river's flooded, which makes sense because I saw a hippogriff circling to the north a few days ago, and they only do that this far from the ranges when there's been a big rain and they're following the floodwaters. Anyway, Red Tufted Darters. If we're seeing them, that means their burrows are flooded, and they've relocated to the west because they can live on, but don't like, the Unistem plants that grow in that direction. Ergo, we see one, it's because there's a flood. And a flood big enough to flush a Darter means the bridge is out. That's becausee there was that old cedar that fell two years ago, if you recall, and was lodged upstream. A flood will pick that up, sure as Meilikki hunts, and smash it into that bridge, which has needed fixed for decades due to the soil erosion around the central buttress. Little tap, no bridge, but, even if it stands, the flood water will make it so you can't get to it. So, we need to go north, take the Highline Ridge back east. It'll add 2 days to the trip, but we'll skirt the floods. Meilikki preserves, you people don't know anything."
Bob shoulders his pack again and walks into the woods, northwards.
"Wow. Have any of you ever heard Bob say that much in one go... like ever?"
Scene.

 

[Vaalingrade]

* - and rules be damned, I don't think I'd allow the mere presence of a low-level Ranger to negate this possibilty; though having a Ranger along would certainly help speed up the regain-your-bearings process.

And next time the fighter tries to stab my BBEG before he can give his monologue and escape, I'll declare his sword doesn't work and lightly massages him instead!