If you don't want to discuss, don't answer back. But you might also want to listen to lots of people who did not like 4e, they had their reasons too.
Been there done that and they are not really pertinent to this part of the forum flagged as 4e and not really pertinent to people discussing generally about actually playing 4e.
It has lots of qualities, which I recognise, but it's not perfect in general, and I'm entitled to my preferences.
yup no game is perfect, and there are lots of places to discuss your preferences I suppose , but only here do you get to whine about 4e being inferior (or not open ended or whatever) because you made it that way and have anyone care to point that out because they disagree.
What is this even about ?
How completely limited the 5e martial characters are... and how even more limited they felt in 1e of course, you obsess on using spells and ignore that rituals are meant for non-combat contexts (
and that page 42 has is even existent for combat situations). I will ignore that some people managed to get super awesome relics from a DM in 1e so that their really lame fighter or thief felt less lame.
No, it's clearly not, and I've not been the only one to explain that it's totally abstract, very gamist, and that is did not suit our tables at all.
It clearly is and yes hit points and to hit and so on all extremely abstract extremely gamist and extremely D&D... representing large numbers of things in broad open ended ways is what abstract means. Sounds mighty open ended to me.
Moreover, it's not even what I was speaking about, oyu draw everything back to skill challenges, but there are constraints all over the place in that system, which is a widely recognised fact.
Just one of many versatile components from what you say you also limit those by thinking they have to be massively prepared and similar things.
No, by open ended, I mean something that can deal with every situation that I have imagined for the last 40 years in D&D, which 4e did not allow me to do, in particular because all the powers of the classes are limited to combat,
zero powers in 1e except I hit it with my sword... oh right you really mean spells then ignore rituals again./
Not at all, but I don't need skill challenges to run things outside combat, so it's not a boon to me, I prefer even more openendedness which is not bound by preparation
you know I bet most of us who play 4e right here improvise skill challenges I cannot be certain of course
and allows me to take improvisation and new ideas into account,
So you didnt read the description of Skill challenges telling you absolutely to do that? The number of times people pulled out their cliches about 4e and we pointed out where the game expressly said to do that is humongous you are not special in this just the latest.
and honestly, it's what, 2% of the system ? Whereas all the rest of the system fixes what where previously and after much more open classes
Right, nods again which classes? oh right spell casters.... oh right spells are vague so they can be interpreted bunches of ways and rituals do not count and page 42 actions do not count because hand wave those really are not open ended because hand wave again.
into extremely strict paths with boring combat powers that only scale with level by increasing the numbers,
sure I can stunlock enemies at higher levels and all kinds powers do more an more other effects and many of mightier powers get progressively more effects are you only looking at striker abilities because yes they largely do more damage. Which is maybe all the fighters own abilities ever allowed him to do in 1e.
The only classes that are even close to your description is a striker who chose only to optimize for damage.
not even the possibilities.
sure again this is about spells because it really cannot be about I hit it with my sword character.
Because merely increasing the numbers is only descriptive of strikers and even they had options of feats they could take to generate interesting other effects. OR the DM could just use page 42 to do similar where supplemental effects were based more on just on situation and how limited he saw the window for it.
I used page 42 to have a character knock two enemies on guard off a building with their twin strike timed to take out 2 others below... it was a rare enough situation very effective. And very reasonable way to use page 42 adjudication in conjunction with a power.
You want adaptive adjudication that is not covered expressly by a power that is the page 42 concept. You want to expend a power and use that to fuel the effect so to speak its right there.
(you want the result to be a changed adapted application of the power well why not???)
As for rituals, they were nice, but again destined to a very limited set of characters.
LOL available for any class with pretty low investment oh right this is not really 4e you talk about just your imaginary version hauled out for "discussion", aside I had a game where all three players had ritualist they were using Arcana to change how rituals worked or finish rituals they had only part of quite a bit.
You have a big kick about how rituals dont count as spells I have no idea why.