D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Quartz]

I really don't like the way D&D does deities. Historically, priests worshipped pantheons, not individual deities. Fortunately it's easy to retrofit that to D&D. A priest might serve the Olympian pantheon and if her particular interest were the sea she might especially pray to Poseidon and be granted the Water domain. Later in life she might especially pray to Hestia and get the Home & Hearth domain instead.

 

[SkidAce]

But then what happens if Tyranny reaches 100% in Toril, because Bane conquers the world. Is Asmodeus just going to sit back and let Bane rule a corner of the multiverse?

He will promote Bane to regional division head, and then keep a wary eye on him....

 

[MGibster]

I really don't like the way D&D does deities. Historically, priests worshipped pantheons, not individual deities. Fortunately it's easy to retrofit that to D&D. A priest might serve the Olympian pantheon and if her particular interest were the sea she might especially pray to Poseidon and be granted the Water domain. Later in life she might especially pray to Hestia and get the Home & Hearth domain instead.

I don't really care for it either. I prefer to go the Greek route where everyone in the story recognizes the same pantheon even if some groups might be favored by one particular god or another.

 

[Chaosmancer]

First, that would never happen. There are too many other gods and peoples who would resist Bane's followers. But for the sake of argument, why would Asmodeus care if Bane rules Toril? He has a multiverse to worry about and wouldn't have time to rule even a small slice of Toril, let alone the entire thing.

Because Asmodeus is Tyranny, and his goal is to rule EVERYTHING. Not, everything minus this bit over here, but EVERYTHING. And so, Bane is a direct competitor with fewer resources and a smaller power base. Which is not a healthy situation to be in. Especially since Asmodeus is active on Toril.

 

[Chaosmancer]

He will promote Bane to regional division head, and then keep a wary eye on him....

I know you are saying it in jest, but that is one of the only things that makes sense. Either they fight over the territory (and in Max's conception of the situation, Bane loses badly) or one of them ends up working for the other.

 

[Maxperson]

I know you are saying it in jest, but that is one of the only things that makes sense. Either they fight over the territory (and in Max's conception of the situation, Bane loses badly) or one of them ends up working for the other.

False Dichotomies are false. First, they don't need to fight at all. If Asmodeus focuses his time on one plane, he loses influence in thousands more. For all his power, he just doesn't have time for small picture stuff. Second, he's still not as powerful as Bane is, so Asmodeus loses badly in a direct fight. Further, neither one will ever work for the other. Bane is too powerful for Asmodeus to force to do anything, and Bane only cares about Toril, not Hell and the rest, so he wouldn't try to make Asmodeus work for him.

Edit: Asmodeus isn't even Tyranny in the Forgotten Realms, so he and Bane(who actually is Tyranny) have no reason to clash over tyranny. Asmodeus is god of indulgence.

 

[Minigiant]

Bane and Asmodeus are not in direct competition for the same portfolio in any "official" setting. On FR Bane is Tyranny and Asmodeus is Indulgence. On Nerath, Bane is War and Asmodeus is Tyranny.

There is only a problem if you make them the same kind of god. Which is a designer created problem.

It essentially is the issue with the whole "what is the purpose and role of evil gods if have demons and devils who do the same thing?"


The answer is "Why are you insisting on making your devils demons, and evil gods do the same thing and have the same powers?"

 

[Maxperson]

Bane and Asmodeus are not in direct competition for the same portfolio in any "official" setting. On FR Bane is Tyranny and Asmodeus is Indulgence. On Nerath, Bane is War and Asmodeus is Tyranny.

There is only a problem if you make them the same kind of god. Which is a designer created problem.

It essentially is the issue with the whole "what is the purpose and role of evil gods if have demons and devils who do the same thing?"


The answer is "Why are you insisting on making your devils demons, and evil gods do the same thing and have the same powers?"

This.

 

[Chaosmancer]

False Dichotomies are false. First, they don't need to fight at all. If Asmodeus focuses his time on one plane, he loses influence in thousands more. For all his power, he just doesn't have time for small picture stuff. Second, he's still not as powerful as Bane is, so Asmodeus loses badly in a direct fight. Further, neither one will ever work for the other. Bane is too powerful for Asmodeus to force to do anything, and Bane only cares about Toril, not Hell and the rest, so he wouldn't try to make Asmodeus work for him.

Edit: Asmodeus isn't even Tyranny in the Forgotten Realms, so he and Bane(who actually is Tyranny) have no reason to clash over tyranny. Asmodeus is god of indulgence.

How is someone with effectively infinite resources and the power to directly affect near infinite places simultaneously weaker than someone limited to a single world? Or, more accurately, a single continent. Because Bane has no influence in places like Kara-Tur, Ossa, Zakhara ect ect

And if Asmodeus is a god, then the entire point is moot. He is a god and an Archdevil and everything still works, in fact, you've been putting forth an argument as though he wasn't a god.

And, sure, he might lose influence in a thousand, but he is conquering worlds. That is his goal. He wants to rule all of existence. And no one as brilliant as Asmodeus thinks you can conquer effectively if you are trying to conquer everything all at the same time.

And if Bane is so powerful that Asmodeus can't stand against him, why is Asmodeus allowed to continue operating in Toril? Doesn't he represent a threat to Bane's conquering of all of Toril? Something he is incredibly far from since he isn't even capable of conquering a single continent of the planet.


None of this is making a lot of sense

 

[Chaosmancer]

Bane and Asmodeus are not in direct competition for the same portfolio in any "official" setting. On FR Bane is Tyranny and Asmodeus is Indulgence. On Nerath, Bane is War and Asmodeus is Tyranny.

There is only a problem if you make them the same kind of god. Which is a designer created problem.

It essentially is the issue with the whole "what is the purpose and role of evil gods if have demons and devils who do the same thing?"


The answer is "Why are you insisting on making your devils demons, and evil gods do the same thing and have the same powers?"

Because while they may say that Asmodeus is the "God of Indulgence" that is in no way how he operates, it has nothing to do with his plans, and it seems completely mismatched from running Nine different infinite planes in an tyrannical rule.

Honestly, in what way does Asmodeus represent indulgence instead of tyranny? It has nothing to do with his goals, his methods, his history. It seems more like they needed to give him a different title than the one he would actually have, so they shoe-horned in this.