D&D 5E WotC Ranger: Drakewarden released at D&D Celebration

Nathaniel Lee

Adventurer
And Druids can wildshape into a flying creature at level 8. Seriously, they should be able to ride their flying drake at level 7!
That seems a bit early to me. If you wildshape into a flying creature you’re kinda stuck doing just the stuff that creature can do. On the other hand, if you’re riding on the back of your cool dragon buddy your dragon buddy can do a bunch of stuff while flying around and you also get to do a bunch of stuff yourself. I mean sure you need to spend a bonus action to command it, but most wild shapable (?) beasts don’t have bonus actions anyway.
 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
That seems a bit early to me. If you wildshape into a flying creature you’re kinda stuck doing just the stuff that creature can do. On the other hand, if you’re riding on the back of your cool dragon buddy your dragon buddy can do a bunch of stuff while flying around and you also get to do a bunch of stuff yourself. I mean sure you need to spend a bonus action to command it, but most wild shapable (?) beasts don’t have bonus actions anyway.
Twilight Clerics can fly for free at level 6, Druids can do it at level 8, quite a few races can do it at either level 1 or 3, and I could go on.

There are good wildshapes that can fly (Quetzalcoatlus, for example). It doesn't matter if they have bonus action options or not. They can fly, and can do so for several hours straight, and without needing to concentrate. A Ranger that has a pet dragon would not be broken if it was allowed to ride their flying dragon at level 7.
 

Nathaniel Lee

Adventurer
Actually rereading the subclass I’m seeing that others wouldn’t be able to ride around on it like a flying carpet since they’d still be too big until 15th level, but the concept of you being able to ride a Medium creature is even weirder to me.

I definitely wouldn’t go with a flying mount until at least 11th level, and the current 15th level works in two ways: it’s the capstone of an interesting conceptual progression/evolution of a draconic companion who grows and becomes more powerful as you do; it also kinda aligns with the paladin not getting Find Greater Steed to have a flying mount until 13th level.

Also, if you already get a flying dragon mount at 7th level, how do you even follow that up in the subclass? What’s the progression after that? The 11th level feature and the 15th level feature without the flight are themselves pretty unimpressive once you’re already a dragon rider. Getting a flying dragon BFF feels very much like a capstone feature.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Also, if you already get a flying dragon mount at 7th level, how do you even follow that up in the subclass? What’s the progression after that? The 11th level feature and the 15th level feature without the flight are themselves pretty unimpressive once you’re already a dragon rider. Getting a flying dragon BFF feels very much like a capstone feature.
Faster flying speed. More maneuverability. More damage. More hit points. Bigger breath weapon. Special actions from the dragon type. Trick riding stunts. Taking passengers. Bonus actions. Reactions. Not needing to be commanded to perform actions. Synergies with the rider and mount. Shared senses. There's lots of things you could do.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
So anyone know how much the drake weighs? If the damned thing can't carry the drakewarden until 15th level, maybe a drakewarden with a sufficient strength could carry it. Use one of those magic items that grant flying and carry it around while you fly. Or play a fairy drakewarden with high strength and tote it around like a pokemon until it's useful.
 

Nathaniel Lee

Adventurer
Faster flying speed. More maneuverability. More damage. More hit points. Bigger breath weapon. Special actions from the dragon type. Trick riding stunts. Taking passengers. Bonus actions. Reactions. Not needing to be commanded to perform actions. Synergies with the rider and mount. Shared senses. There's lots of things you could do.
In which case it becomes much harder to argue that it's still balanced, and the concept becomes much less interesting. I personally like hatching a Charmander and then evolving it into a Charizard as I explore the Kanto region. It wouldn't be as interesting if the final evolution came much sooner because after that it's really just increasing those attack and defense stats, which is much less fun. I like the concept of what they're doing here as is, although I don't disagree that there could be improvements. In my view, if you want to ride around on a smaller dragon at 7th level, that would be more of a "befriend a young dragon and turn it into a sidekick" deal than something codified in a subclass.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Actually rereading the subclass I’m seeing that others wouldn’t be able to ride around on it like a flying carpet since they’d still be too big until 15th level,
As currently written, a Small creature could ride your flying drake, but you couldn't, at level 7. So, at level 7 two Small drakewardens (Small Harengon, Fairies, Goblins, Kobolds, etc) could summon their medium drakes that can fly, and switch with each other to be able to ride a drake and fly at that level.

So, yes, other people could ride your flying drake at level 7, so long as they're small.

It's just weirdly written, and it gating you from doing the one thing you're known for for no apparent reason.
but the concept of you being able to ride a Medium creature is even weirder to me.
In Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden, there's an encounter that is with a Frost Giant (which are Huge) that's mounted on a Mammoth (which is also Huge). This breaks the PHB's rules for mounting, but it's not a big deal, because it's cool.
I definitely wouldn’t go with a flying mount until at least 11th level, and the current 15th level works in two ways: it’s the capstone of an interesting conceptual progression/evolution of a draconic companion who grows and becomes more powerful as you do; it also kinda aligns with the paladin not getting Find Greater Steed to have a flying mount until 13th level.
Here's the thing; those aren't for balance reasons. I don't see any reason why having a flying mount at level 7 for a subclass feature would be mechanically broken. There's clearly more broken things that certain subclasses get access to (again, Twilight Cleric comes to mind, or the Echo Knight being able to summon levitating echoes that can pick them up and move them wherever they want at level 3).
Also, if you already get a flying dragon mount at 7th level, how do you even follow that up in the subclass? What’s the progression after that? The 11th level feature and the 15th level feature without the flight are themselves pretty unimpressive once you’re already a dragon rider. Getting a flying dragon BFF feels very much like a capstone feature.
Uh, by having the drake deal more damage, get access to breath weapons, more movement speeds, magical damage, blindsight (because it is a dragon), an ability to heal itself using its hit dice, or similar abilities. You can easily give impressive capstones and have the subclass be balanced while letting a Dragon Rider ride their dragon (and fly) before late Tier 3 of the campaign.
 




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