D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[Chaosmancer]

I was talking about hit points, which denote how much punishment you can take and are strongly influenced by your Con score. No on camera rolling required.

Sure, but Hit Points aren't the only metric to say that a character is "tough". There are other things like AC, ability to hold liquor, a tough mindset.

Which is why your comment struck me as odd, because you seemed to have used only a single metric and hang the entire word on that one metric.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And what would have prevented you from doing exactly that with fixed ASI and your ability array? When you put your two highest abilities into int and wis you would still have a old wise guy. Who would also still be a Giff with his racial ASI and thus different from an old wise dwarf/elf/halfling.

And why is it a problem to do it this way instead? Letting a hippo man be different from an elf or dwarf... by the fact that he's a hippo man not a dwarf or elf. The ASIs don't lend themselves to that. I mean, imagine for a second they ended up with +2 strength +2 Con, they would still be different than a Mountain Dwarf, wouldn't they?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

And what would have prevented you from doing exactly that with fixed ASI and your ability array? When you put your two highest abilities into int and wis you would still have a old wise guy. Who would also still be a Giff with his racial ASI and thus different from an old wise dwarf/elf/halfling.

Sure, sure, I could have done it before, if I pounded it into shape, but I probably wouldn't have thought of doing it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, but Hit Points aren't the only metric to say that a character is "tough". There are other things like AC, ability to hold liquor, a tough mindset.

Which is why your comment struck me as odd, because you seemed to have used only a single metric and hang the entire word on that one metric.

To be fair, none of those things have anything to do with being a giff either, at least as far as this UA is concerned. But certainly you can add those into a character to make them tough.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And why is it a problem to do it this way instead? Letting a hippo man be different from an elf or dwarf... by the fact that he's a hippo man not a dwarf or elf. The ASIs don't lend themselves to that. I mean, imagine for a second they ended up with +2 strength +2 Con, they would still be different than a Mountain Dwarf, wouldn't they?

Back on the day, they would have included stuff in the mechanics about their military discipline and predilection for explosives. But now, since that's cultural stuff, they're not allowed to put in the rules anymore it seems.

 

[Minigiant]

Back on the day, they would have included stuff in the mechanics about their military discipline and predilection for explosives. But now, since that's cultural stuff, they're not allowed to put in the rules anymore it seems.

It's less that they aren't allowed to a more that WOTC wants to support multiple settings at base so they can't apply cultures to races that have different cultures in different settings.

If you have 4 races that are +2 Str and +1 Con and their cultures don't matter because they are different in 3+ official settings, you don't have 4 races. You have 1 race. 1 race 4 times.

Giff/Hippomen are violent emotional river pirates in my friend's game where they are based on hippos. Taking out the lore and keeping dwarf and orc stats betray their image.

 

[Ixal]

Sure, sure, I could have done it before, if I pounded it into shape, but I probably wouldn't have thought of doing it.

You are mistaken, what you are doing now is "pounding it into shape". And that you would never have thought about playing something not optimal means that the problem is you and not ASI.

 

[Bolares]

To be fair, none of those things have anything to do with being a giff either, at least as far as this UA is concerned. But certainly you can add those into a character to make them tough.

I think most of us can agree that the giff is a little lackluster... They are just starting to design classes without ASIs, some will be harder than others, it's a natural thing of design, and a great feedback to give them in surveys. At the same time we were shown some great designs that differentiate a race without giving them ASIs....

 

[Chaosmancer]

Back on the day, they would have included stuff in the mechanics about their military discipline and predilection for explosives. But now, since that's cultural stuff, they're not allowed to put in the rules anymore it seems.

Also... this is a UA playtest, not the final version, and minor +1's are harder to justify. Especially if they may or may not be doing the Giff as you know them or altering them.

I think wanting to represent their military discipline is a great idea, not sure how you'd put in mechanics for explosives at this point, since explosives are very very optional. But while I won't say that the Giff are currently the best designed playtest race out of the bunch, I don't think calling someone out that their character can't be "tough" unless they get a bonus to HP is very conducive to finding what we can improve here

 

[Micah Sweet]

Also... this is a UA playtest, not the final version, and minor +1's are harder to justify. Especially if they may or may not be doing the Giff as you know them or altering them.

I think wanting to represent their military discipline is a great idea, not sure how you'd put in mechanics for explosives at this point, since explosives are very very optional. But while I won't say that the Giff are currently the best designed playtest race out of the bunch, I don't think calling someone out that their character can't be "tough" unless they get a bonus to HP is very conducive to finding what we can improve here

There is nothing in the giff race as presented in the UA this thread is ostensibly about that represents them being tough. That's all I'm talking about. Certainly you can do stuff to make your giff tough, but under these rules the things you can do have nothing to do with it being a giff.

I loved the giff as they were presented In previous editions, because i found their culture in contrast to their appearance interesting and funny. The Spelljammer novels included a giff character that represented this perfectly, and i remember it fondly. I lament the loss of cultural traits with mechanical weight in favor of telling everyone to make it up and just roleplay it.