D&D General Thaco the angry clown... really?

[Hussar]

what is less funny and more offensive to me is the broad brush hate to “the OSR crowd” I see here and elsewhere because some of their players are asshats.

See, the problem is, you have to look at what folks are being toxic about and where the trends lie.

If there is any topic regarding things like art in the books, sexism, racism, etc. and someone enters the discussion proudly wearing their OSR badge, it is very, very frequently paired with a defense of "how things were done" and "how this new stuff is just pandering" and the like.

If the OSR crowd could do a smidgeon more to take those folks to task when they crop up, stop supporting people like Pundit and his ilk, and perhaps actually take a stand, maybe, just maybe, the brush wouldn't be quite so broad.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

If that's true, then we need to brainstorm some directions to take this thread so that he regrets doing that.

Hahahahaha oooooh no. No no no. As it has been said previously by much smarter people than i, it is better to just walk away from the subject. He hasn’t earned anything more than an eye roll.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

See, the problem is, you have to look at what folks are being toxic about and where the trends lie.

If there is any topic regarding things like art in the books, sexism, racism, etc. and someone enters the discussion proudly wearing their OSR badge, it is very, very frequently paired with a defense of "how things were done" and "how this new stuff is just pandering" and the like.

If the OSR crowd could do a smidgeon more to take those folks to task when they crop up, stop supporting people like Pundit and his ilk, and perhaps actually take a stand, maybe, just maybe, the brush wouldn't be quite so broad.

Right. They deserve the label. Case in point.

 

[MerricB]

See, the problem is, you have to look at what folks are being toxic about and where the trends lie.

If there is any topic regarding things like art in the books, sexism, racism, etc. and someone enters the discussion proudly wearing their *** badge, it is very, very frequently paired with a defense of "how things were done" and "how this new stuff is just pandering" and the like.

If the *** crowd could do a smidgeon more to take those folks to task when they crop up, stop supporting people like Pundit and his ilk, and perhaps actually take a stand, maybe, just maybe, the brush wouldn't be quite so broad.

If you replace "OSR" with "D&D", then that statement is also accurate, but we've included more people. Or pull out further, replace it with TTRPGs. In the greater gaming sphere, this is a particular issue in TTRPGs. Is this too broad a generalisation? Absolutely it is!

So, consider this: Is it the whole OSR you object to, or part of it?

That's why I object to the labelling of the clown as "THAC0". Because it implies that anyone who likes AD&D 2E is a gatekeeping clown. (and possibly AD&D 1E as well). And that's the implication that is being taken by a bunch of folks.

In Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, the fat, slovenly hill giant is called Nosnra. Which is a dig at Dave Arneson. (It's Arneson backwards, leaving out the e). It's not the only time Gary made fun of the co-creator of D&D. At least with that, there's no guessing required of who he's denigrating.

The term is too broad. Is it all OSR people who are a problem? No. So don't imply that it is. (Because I can find some incredibly problematic people in the 5E sphere as well).

 

[Azzy]

Hahahahaha oooooh no. No no no. As it has been said previously by much smarter people than i, it is better to just walk away from the subject. He hasn’t earned anything more than an eye roll.

Right, he seems like a narcissist that craves attention. The problem is he is completely irrelevant, unimportant, and his ideas are worthless. And that's all his good traits.

 

[darjr]

Now you are part of the problem, along with everyone on this site. Or pull out further, replace it with TTRPGs. In the greater gaming sphere, this is a particular issue in TTRPGs.

That's why I object to the labelling of the clown as "THAC0". Because it says "anyone who likes AD&D 2E is a gatekeeping clown". (and possibly AD&D 1E as well).

In Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, the fat, slovenly hill giant is called Nosnra. Which is a dig at Dave Arneson. (It's Arneson backwards, leaving out the e). It's not the only time Gary made fun of the co-creator of D&D. At least with that, there's no guessing required of who he's denigrating.

The term is too broad. Is it all OSR people who are a problem? No. So don't imply that it is. (Because I can find some incredibly problematic people in the 5E sphere as well).

Well digs in RPGs go back to Dave too, the Egg of Coot probably being the earliest example if not one of the very first.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Now you are part of the problem, along with everyone on this site. Or pull out further, replace it with TTRPGs. In the greater gaming sphere, this is a particular issue in TTRPGs.

Yes, we keep finding more and more scumbags in gaming as a whole.

The difference is the visibility of both the bad actors and the efforts to address them.

Trying to ignore that or deflect it or tossing 'you too's around isn't going to help all the good people in the OSR that are being blocked out by the loud, prominent and oft-lauded clowns in it.

 

[MerricB]

Trying to ignore that or deflect it or tossing 'you too's around isn't going to help all the good people in the OSR that are being blocked out by the loud, prominent and oft-lauded clowns in it.

So, what are you doing to laud the good OSR people?

What is Wizards doing?

Oh, that's right, they're making the OSR movement feel unwanted.

 

[billd91]

So, what are you doing to laud the good OSR people?

What is Wizards doing?

Oh, that's right, they're making the OSR movement feel unwanted.

I think from Wizards's perspective, the OSR indicated they didn't want the D&D versions from Wizards. And, honestly, I don't think they're wrong in that assessment. I don't think Wizards needs to make them feel wanted. They've pretty much made themselves irrelevant as a market segment.

 

[billd91]

If the OSR crowd could do a smidgeon more to take those folks to task when they crop up, stop supporting people like Pundit and his ilk, and perhaps actually take a stand, maybe, just maybe, the brush wouldn't be quite so broad.

I've heard things like that before... and you probably don't want me to point out exactly what this parallels.