D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[Remathilis]

This isn't really news. The Dragonborn from Fizban's Treasury of Dragons (from what we've seen in both the UA and the preview of the Metallic Dragonborn) are already split up into 3 separate races, not really being subraces of the same race. And this is fine for most of the races, because most races only have 1-4 subraces. However, it could be a problem for Tieflings and Elves, because they have a ton of subraces. Elves have High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Eladrin, Shadar-Kai, Sea Elves, Pallid Elves, and Mark of Shadow Elves, while Tieflings have 9 subraces; one for each layer of the Nine Hells (10 subraces if you include Feral Tieflings). That could get tedious.

I don't imagine all elven subraces will be reprinted in one source. There are only three types of elf in the PHB (high, wood, dark). Eberron had one (shadow mark), ToF had three, Wildemont had one. The extra space used in each book is minimal.

As for tieflings, almost all the tiefling subraces are different ability mods (no longer needed) and innate spells. The only tiefling variant that did anything else was winged. You could just set up a bunch of spell suites and eliminate the need for subraces.

 

[Scribe]

So here's one.

The Fundamental Math of DnD 5e Character Optimization - RPGBOT

Analysis of the fundamental math behind DnD 5e

rpgbot.net

I think it's making an assumption on that success rate, and the site is about optimization, not balance, but it is math.

 

[HammerMan]

Totally fair, get them to post the math so I don't have to confirm or refute my hunch.

I hope one of the ones here does, I don't have 1/10th the skill to do it but let me see what I CAN do...

fighter with 16str and +2 prof from 1st-4th level has +5 to hit 1d8+3 damage (average 7)
A duragar a CR 1 has a 16 AC and 26hp (I think that is a good example of warrior v warrior)
A red dragon Wyrmling is CR 4 17 AC and 75hp (I think that should be a good 'worst case' fight)

so to hit the CR 1 is 11+ crit on a 20, to hit the CR 4 is 12+ crit on 20(unless champion then crit on 19-20)
assumeing not having that bonus crit range 3.75 average damage (I think that is how DPR works but don't quote me on it) against the CR 1 and 3.4 vs the CR 4. (agianst the CR 4 I will say we gain the action surge but not the CR 1)
so in general 1 on 1 the duragar takes 7 attacks... so 7 rounds. the Dragon takes 22 attacks so 21 rounds (rember 2 attacks 1 round for AS)

lowering the bonus to hit and damage by only 1 (+4 to hit and 6 damage) changes the hit/damage per round to
cr 1 to 2.95 and 9 attacks, so 9 rounds
cr 4 to 2.65 and 28 attacks, so 27 rounds

so do you think the game was balanced around 9-27 rounds or 7-22

also I fully expect that i have MAJOR flaws in my math...

 

[HammerMan]

So here's one.

The Fundamental Math of DnD 5e Character Optimization - RPGBOT

Analysis of the fundamental math behind DnD 5e

rpgbot.net

I think it's making an assumption on that success rate, and the site is about optimization, not balance, but it is math.

thank you... I am sure that is better then what I just scribbled at work

 

[Paul Farquhar]

okay, so I think I will take the math guys over the 'gut feeling' guy, no offense.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Well that's something I mentioned before.

The 5e array is too low and the racial bonus is too low. So you both get little leeway and overemphasis of that little bit.

Nah. I actually like the standard array.
It could be even lower and then racial bonuses could be higher.

 

[Scribe]

thank you... I am sure that is better then what I just scribbled at work

No problem, I'm going to check CR in the DMG, and Xanathars has encounter tables.

I'll check those after work and see if we can reverse engineer something.

 

[Faolyn]

I dont think I am ignoring what you are saying.

You want rules which describe what a race is. You dont want what boils down to a +1, to be part of what what defines a race. I want both.

I'm not saying it should be the ONLY thing. In fact I've said multiple times, it should be in addition to, other things.

1. Racial ASI Stats
2. Racial Rules
3. Paragon Rules
4. Racial Feats.

Do it all!

I just don't get how you don't still have this with floating ASIs. Why does it bother you that not all members of a race have the exact same bonuses and abilities? Why do you need that +1 to help define a race for you? How is it better for you?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

thank you... I am sure that is better then what I just scribbled at work

It is ok. But it is a bit dramatic.
At level 1, fights are so short that if failing once by 1 means early death, that was not the only problem. The damage part of the missing +1 bonus is actually more important. A fighter with duelling fighting style or a two handed weapon can actually mitigate it well enough.
A ranged fighter has a natural +2 bonus to attack. But I actually think for a fighter, one of your two stats will be a 16 anyway. Some subrace will provide you with the relevant stats. If not, there will be a feature that helps you.

 

[Faolyn]

Better yes, it could be one race of Orc with a single set of ASI.

Many players seems to have been conditioned to always optimize which goes against the very idea of role playing and thus should in my opinion not be catered to.

Er, no. Roleplaying and optimization are two different things.

You're confusing people who optimize--which is making sure your stats, traits, and abilities line up in a beneficial way--with people who powergame just to "win" by doing the most damage while not caring about who their character actually is.