D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Helldritch]

This was literally one of the examples in my previous list. So, you called this nonsensical and ridiculous just last post. So, perhaps instead of just making a blanket statement and declaring all of my ideas bad, you could pull out some that you don't like and explain why you think they are worthy of severe and immediate punishment instead of a discussion about which aspects you don't like? Because to me, all of my ideas were logical. That was sort of the point of them.

No not really. Almost none of your point made any sense at all. I am still debating with myself if you truly do not understand, make fun of us or simply to driven to "win" to debate and truly evaluate what we say...

In all general rules, there are exceptions. It is not because you "found" a few things that do not (or do) work that all of a sudden, everything falls apart. Quite the contrary.

 

[Helldritch]

I think I'll pull a you and say "that doesn't mean that the portfolio is limited to those domains or that those domains are actually descriptive of what the gods' portfolios actually are." Hey, if fourteen demigods can have listed domains but still not be able to grant spells (according to you) because one line in a book says they can't, and because, as Voadam noted, the books use portfolio and domain in many different ways in different places, that means that no, those domains are not actually their portfolios--just mechanics used to codify their actual portfolios.

After all, Ghaunadaur is not a god of war, even though he grants the War domain. Branchala is not a god of Light, since he's the god of "elves, kender, music, harmony, poetry, forests, beauty, weather, luck, the disenfranchised," according to a DL wiki. Not even a candleflame's worth of light in his portfolio there.

And so on and so forth.

Also, you need to remember that the listed domains are suggested domains offered for you to consider picking. They aren't hard rules (except in AL games). You can actually pick any domain you want. You can play a Nature cleric of Vecna or Bhaal if you wanted to and that's perfectly legal by RAW. Weird, yes, but legal--and nobody would think that either Vecna or Bhaal are nature gods.

Work with you DM to choose an appropriate domain for your deity. So unless the DM approves, nope, no can't do.

 

[Faolyn]

Work with you DM to choose an appropriate domain for your deity. So unless the DM approves, nope, no can't do.

That's pretty much true for everything in D&D, though.

 

[Helldritch]

That's pretty much true for everything in D&D, though.

Yep, basically, we are stuck with the "suggested " domains in the PHB for the various deities. This means that some combinations will never allowed per RAW but RAI a generous DM could allow some of them. Maxperson is fully right in his understanding of the rule. But Chaosmancer also has point. It is unfortunate that he takes ridiculous examples then switch back to good ones to try a catch22 on us. We have both RAI and RAW on this. Of course, taken to extremes, no rules ever (or almost) can hold under a microscope type of reading and stretching. At some point, we must use logic and fairness.

 

[Faolyn]

Yep, basically, we are stuck with the "suggested " domains in the PHB for the various deities. This means that some combinations will never allowed per RAW but RAI a generous DM could allow some of them.

No, that's not the case. A DM can disallow a combination, but you're not actually stuck with the suggested domains by RAW (unless you're playing AL games, but that's different). I mean, I, as a player, can think of a decent reason why I have a Life or Nature cleric of Vecna (simplest reason: you discovered or are tasked with the hidden secrets of life or nature, and are working to keep them secret, even if it means murdering healers or druids or whatever). As a DM, I can also say "no, that's not how Vecna works," but that's using DM powers to circumvent the RAW.

Obviously, some combinations are going to be a total stretch, but let's face it: religion is a thing that can always be stretched into new shapes.

 

[Voadam]

No, that's not the case. A DM can disallow a combination, but you're not actually stuck with the suggested domains by RAW (unless you're playing AL games, but that's different). I mean, I, as a player, can think of a decent reason why I have a Life or Nature cleric of Vecna (simplest reason: you discovered or are tasked with the hidden secrets of life or nature, and are working to keep them secret, even if it means murdering healers or druids or whatever). As a DM, I can also say "no, that's not how Vecna works," but that's using DM powers to circumvent the RAW.

Obviously, some combinations are going to be a total stretch, but let's face it: religion is a thing that can always be stretched into new shapes.

RAW the cleric picks a domain related to their god which seems to imply player justification is sufficient to pick a domain.

5e PH Page 58 under Divine Domain: "Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it. Your choice grants you domain spells and other features when you choose it at 1st level."

For most gods it is trivially easy for a player to relate at least a good number of those domains to them.

But also RAW the cleric picks from among the god's defined portfolio:

5e PH Page 59 under Divine Domains: "In a pantheon, every deity has influence over different aspects of mortal life and civilization, called a deity's domain. All the domains over which a deity has influence are called the deity's portfolio. For example, the portfolio of the Greek god Apollo includes the domains of Knowledge, Life, and Light. As a cleric, you choose one aspect of your deity's portfolio to emphasize, and you are granted powers related to that domain."

This makes it seem more like a setting/DM-established defined list and not something for a player to determine what is related or not.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No not really. Almost none of your point made any sense at all. I am still debating with myself if you truly do not understand, make fun of us or simply to driven to "win" to debate and truly evaluate what we say...

In all general rules, there are exceptions. It is not because you "found" a few things that do not (or do) work that all of a sudden, everything falls apart. Quite the contrary.

So, you are just going to arbitrarily declare my points nonsense, except for the one I took time to explain a second time. And you aren't going to actually give me any examples of which ones are nonsense, so I guess if I want to defend my point I just have to repeat every single thing I said again?

But hey, I'll do this instead. Give me a god. Any god and I'll probably be able to fit at least three domain clerics under that god. It might be hard for evil gods who don't have a lot of domains (very little market for evil cleric subclasses) but hey, why not.

 

[Maxperson]

That's pretty much true for everything in D&D, though.

His is RAW, though, not rule 0 like you're implying.

 

[Maxperson]

No, that's not the case. A DM can disallow a combination, but you're not actually stuck with the suggested domains by RAW (unless you're playing AL games, but that's different). I mean, I, as a player, can think of a decent reason why I have a Life or Nature cleric of Vecna (simplest reason: you discovered or are tasked with the hidden secrets of life or nature, and are working to keep them secret, even if it means murdering healers or druids or whatever). As a DM, I can also say "no, that's not how Vecna works," but that's using DM powers to circumvent the RAW.

That's not a decent reason. Secrets of nature falls directly under Knowledge(learning secrets). It's a fairly weak justification for it and doesn't fit Vecna at all. Further, it's not the DM using his powers to circumvent RAW, it's the DM employing the RAW that @Helldritch quoted to you above about working with your DM to pick an appropriate domain.

Edit: I don't see that quote, so I'm not sure where he got it from that you have to work with the DM.

 

[Voadam]

But hey, I'll do this instead. Give me a god. Any god and I'll probably be able to fit at least three domain clerics under that god. It might be hard for evil gods who don't have a lot of domains (very little market for evil cleric subclasses) but hey, why not.

Iuz God of Pain and Oppression, official suggested domains - Death.

Arguing related domains based on his stories and attributes:

The Old One appears as a magic user and is son of the archwitch Iggwilv - Knowledge.
Iuz instigated the Greyhawk Wars and conquered his way from a kingdom to an Empire through war - War.
Iuz set off the Greyhawk Wars by impersonating a barbarian god and manipulating nations into war - Trickery.