D&D 5E Wow! No more subraces. The Players Handbook races reformat to the new race format going forward.

[Bolares]

It's very funny to me.

I play WoW, the Classic versions.

The most important stat up to a point?

+hit

I don't disagree with WotC's initial assumption. I prefer a game were players (and monsters) are hitting more. But the tricky part is that you have to balance that with HP. And you need to give monsters interesting and diverse attacks, so the players keep engaged in the battle. If you are always hitting and getting hit, but the attacks are always the same, the fight can get boring really quick.

 

[HammerMan]

Balance is thrown out of the window in 5e because they missed some core things in their assumptions. They decided hitting the enemy is more fun than missing, so AC's got lower and HP got higher. Monster would theoretically live longer, but players would hit most of the time. The problem is they underestimated the power of a full party hitting all the time. Action economy seemed to not be a factor in encounter balancing on early 5e (it's a little better now, but not much). That coupled with the fact that monster attacks were reeeeeally boring made for a pretty lame encounter building, and it was broken from the start.

I agree really fun fights are better then boring, and even boring quick doesn't help if that just means more fights per night of gaming

 

[HammerMan]

In the end of the day by playing the game you end up getting a feeling for the game's balance, so now I can make balanced and challenging encounters for my players, but the DMG is useless for that IME.

I find myself defualting to mythic/legendary deadly encounters with lots of complications... the problem is you cna't fill a dungeon with those.

 

[Scribe]

I find myself defualting to mythic/legendary deadly encounters with lots of complications... the problem is you cna't fill a dungeon with those.

And bear with me, but do you see why?

Because everyone thinks they need maxed stats, and the fundamental math is hilariously tilted in the players favour.

Take those PCs, optimized, with a minmax party?

The whole concept of balance is obliterated, it cannot be done, with how Wizards has built the game.

Only the DM can fix it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's also worth noting that the author's opinion of their own work is just one avenue of analysis. WotC's opinion of what 5e is about is not scripture by any means.

 

[HammerMan]

And bear with me, but do you see why?

Because everyone thinks they need maxed stats, and the fundamental math is hilariously tilted in the players favour.

Take those PCs, optimized, with a minmax party?

The whole concept of balance is obliterated, it cannot be done, with how Wizards has built the game.

Only the DM can fix it.

well I agree WoTC messed up (and I want to see it rectified) I don't think it is because player have 16 str/wis/cha I think it is because monsters stink. Becuse if the answer was "Just raise AC" I would have done that years ago now.

The problem is, if you rase the AC by a small amount you do not increase the fun in the encounter, you just make it longer. Same with giving more HP.

I can max the HP on my orcs and upgrade all there armor, or give them a 'blessing of war +1 AC and +2 damage' none of that helps make the encounter more fun.

Mythic makes the fight longer (although I play with when it activates at 0 or bloodied or what ever) but it also introduces new actions.
Legendary helps with lock downs and does make fights longer but it also gives more actions.

If I give a warrior 'boss' 3 legendary actions each named something cool, and only use them to spread out what is happening (even something as simple as a super/double jump that doesn't provoke to move the fight) eengages the players more

 

[Scribe]

well I agree WoTC messed up (and I want to see it rectified) I don't think it is because player have 16 str/wis/cha I think it is because monsters stink. Becuse if the answer was "Just raise AC" I would have done that years ago now.

The problem is, if you rase the AC by a small amount you do not increase the fun in the encounter, you just make it longer. Same with giving more HP.

I can max the HP on my orcs and upgrade all there armor, or give them a 'blessing of war +1 AC and +2 damage' none of that helps make the encounter more fun.

Mythic makes the fight longer (although I play with when it activates at 0 or bloodied or what ever) but it also introduces new actions.
Legendary helps with lock downs and does make fights longer but it also gives more actions.

If I give a warrior 'boss' 3 legendary actions each named something cool, and only use them to spread out what is happening (even something as simple as a super/double jump that doesn't provoke to move the fight) eengages the players more

Certainly just turning dials won't automatic lead to more fun.

My point though remains, the balance is off, to say the least.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue was never balance but assumptions.

WOTC 5e set up an assumption of heroically special PCs. However it did so stereotypically. And many of the new fans don't want to play stereotypes (after 5 years)

 

[Scribe]

The issue was never balance but assumptions.

WOTC 5e set up an assumption of heroically special PCs. However it did so stereotypically. And many of the new fans don't want to play stereotypes (after 5 years)

Yep. 5% difference in connection isn't going to change the underlying assumption, reinforced with the math and design of abilities that the PCs are intended to stride among their enemies like gods.

All this math actually proves.

1. Balance never existed in the base game.
2. Nobody needs, in the strictest mathematical sense, a 16 at level 1.
3. Wizards set some really poor expectations.
4. Racial ASI restrictions don't make you powerless.

Have fun, enjoy floating ASI, but nobody is fooling me at this point, least of all Wizards.

I will say this just really brightened my day, and with that west coast rain, I'll take what I can get.

Edit: Maybe LevelUp fixes this? I know they won't fix ASI, but the monster/encounter math?

 

[Faolyn]

Edit: Maybe LevelUp fixes this? I know they won't fix ASI, but the monster/encounter math?

They say they've redone how CR is determined and how to balance encounters. Also, monsters seem to have a lot of new actions and bonus actions, so at the least fights will be more interesting.