D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

[Scribe]

and your favorite, tiefling paladins, a Cha-based race in a MAD class where Cha is the second-most important stat. One of these things is not like the other.)

I played it when Tieflings got a -2 Cha.

I don't like 5e Tieflings.

 

[Minigiant]

All of this is true and correct.

Nothing says Orc Wizards are not functional however?

Orc wizard only function because wizard is the best class in 5e.

Orc sorcerers aren't functional.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It certainly is somewhat ironic that 5e being 'easy mode' is a rather common complaint.

I mean those complaints are typically from people who think character death is an interesting and engaging trope, so I don't feel any need to give that complaint credence.

 

[Faolyn]

There is nothing wrong with an optimized Elf, being a better Rogue, than an optimized Orc, or whatever.

Actually, I'm going to address this part specifically:

Elves aren't rogues.

Oh, I'm not saying they can't be. Any elf can be a rogue of any sort. I built am elf rogue assassin for Level Up when the rogue playtest came out. But when you think about elves as a people, especially Tolkienesque/D&D elves, you think wizards and rangers and druids. People of nature and magic. Not people who murder and steal and pick locks. That worldbuilding you keep claiming the +2 supports and is so important takes elves out of that typical niche--their stereotype, which you seem to like--and makes them be best at playing a class that, thematically, doesn't fit very well.

 

[Scribe]

If you actually understood the issue, you wouldn't be harping on that 16. You'd realize the actual issue is most people (a) don't like stereotypes all that much, and (b) want to be able to make their characters the way they want.

Oh and this is ALSO great and fine.

You can play all the combinations you like, each of them are functional, and the game (5e) does not force you to play by Alignments, or restrict Classes by race. You are free to play anything you like, and if the 16 ISNT an issue, then you can make any character you want. Pre-Tasha's.

Elves aren't rogues.

Oh, I'm not saying they can't be. Any elf can be a rogue of any sort. I built am elf rogue assassin for Level Up when the rogue playtest came out. But when you think about elves as a people, especially Tolkienesque/D&D elves, you think wizards and rangers and druids. People of nature and magic. Not people who murder and steal and pick locks. That worldbuilding you keep claiming the +2 supports and is so important takes elves out of that typical niche--their stereotype, which you seem to like--and makes them be best at playing a class that, thematically, doesn't fit very well.

Good point, though I think having Dex be great for Rangers, and several Elf Classes reflecting Cantrips as a racial component, is still playing into the tropes.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

For the non-ASI side of things, Half-Orcs get:

• Intimidation proficiency, which is fine for any class.
• Darkvision, great for anyone.
• Relentless Endurance, honestly very good for any class, even helps a wizard early on since they can get to 0 quickly.
• Savage Attacks is the only one that really goes for melee stuff, but it's fine with dex attacks and stuff like a bladesinger, so not terrible.

Orcs get:

• Darkvision
• Primal Intuition, two skills, so good for anyone.
• Powerful Build, that favors strength but it's still fine for anyone, it lets a 10 STR wizard carry as much as a 20 STR Half-Orc.
• Agressive, which is good for melee, and also moving around the battlefield if the enemies are spread out.

Both are suited for melee more, but if you get rid of the ASIs I think they work fine with any class. There isn't an ability that's just 100% useless like Elf Weapon Training and Dwarven Armor Training while you're a Fighter.

 

[Faolyn]

All of this is true and correct.

Nothing says Orc Wizards are not functional however?

Minigiant already explained: nothing about orcs or half-orcs is designed around anything other than melee combat--to whit, they are built around being barbarians, fighters, paladins, and maybe rangers. I disagree that they can't function as spellcasters, but they have absolutely no synergy with the class whatsoever and couldn't use any of their racial abilities while playing a spellcaster without being at severe risk, since spellcasters and melee combat are non-mixy things.

The Level Up orc has Darkvision, Heavy Lifter, and Mighty Attacks (extra die on melee crit), but LU also has everyone pick a heritage gift. For orcs, there's a choice of three gifts: Acclimatized: because orcs are often pushed into the badlands, they gain a damage resistance and ability to ignore difficult terrain based on what type of climate/terrain they're from; Ancestral Blessing: resistance cantrip, 1/day shield, and radiant damage resistance; and Magic Adept: because of Odonti ancestry (remember them?), they can pick a wizard cantrip, and at 3rd level, a 1st- or 2nd-level wizard spell.

So the Level Up orc is still specced for melee combat because of the Mighty Attacks, but they aren't left out to dry for picking something other a melee combatant. (Plus, LU has the Marshal class and redid the Monk (now adept) Adept so you can have a Strength-based martial artist; if the player wanted to play a strong orc, they have a lot more options for it now.)

 

[Minigiant]

For the non-ASI side of things, Half-Orcs get:

• Intimidation proficiency, which is fine for any class.
• Darkvision, great for anyone.
• Relentless Endurance, honestly very good for any class, even helps a wizard early on since they can get to 0 quickly.
• Savage Attacks is the only one that really goes for melee stuff, but it's fine with dex attacks and stuff like a bladesinger, so not terrible.

Orcs get:

• Darkvision
• Primal Intuition, two skills, so good for anyone.
• Powerful Build, that favors strength but it's still fine for anyone, it lets a 10 STR wizard carry as much as a 20 STR Half-Orc.
• Agressive, which is good for melee, and also moving around the battlefield if the enemies are spread out.

Both are suited for melee more, but if you get rid of the ASIs I think they work fine with any class. There isn't an ability that's just 100% useless like Elf Weapon Training and Dwarven Armor Training while you're a Fighter.

Okay

1) Darkvision doesn't count if 75% of races have darkvision. That used to be a major benefit of orc casters but now everything else can see you in the darkas well.

2) Skills don't count if more than a third of races give you a skill

3) Relentless Endurace is eh. My experince is if a caster drops to 0, they are in a very bad position that negating 1 hit won't fix.

4) When do wizard players ever manage encumbrance?

5) Everything else barely helps a wizard or sorcerer. And the melee stuff not at all.

A elf fighter might get redundant weapon profs but they get a cantrip or easier stealth.

 

[Faolyn]

Oh and this is ALSO great and fine.

You can play all the combinations you like, each of them are functional, and the game (5e) does not force you to play by Alignments, or restrict Classes by race. You are free to play anything you like, and if the 16 ISNT an issue, then you can make any character you want. Pre-Tasha's.

Yeah, you still don't get the point. Let me repeat it: stereotypes boring; building the character the way you want because you can assign the +2/+1 where you want good.

Good point, though I think having Dex be great for Rangers, and several Elf Classes reflecting Cantrips as a racial component, is still playing into the tropes.

Dex is good for everyone, and not every elf gives cantrips. And having a free racial cantrip doesn't make you a better spellcaster. It's just a free cantrip. What makes a good spellcaster? Having a high spellcasting attribute.

 

[Scribe]

stereotypes boring; building the character the way you want because you can assign the +2/+1 where you want good

For you, yes.

What makes a good spellcaster? Having a high spellcasting attribute

If it's not about the 16, why do you continue to reinforce this?