D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

[Bolares]

OK, so they can do that with their Standard Array, but the ASI doesnt go there, it is determined by their race.



Correct, those races would all share a +2 in a stat, and any remaining differences are down to the 2 or 3 special rules that those races have.

Culture and anything else beyond those special rules, can no longer be assumed to be relevant as far as the race is concerned.

All of those races are dexterous or agile in some capacity and its reflected with a +1 bonus in addition to any rule differences between those races...



This is a great point. I certainly do not believe 30+ PC race options is improving anything, and in a system without negative modifiers, caps and an upper limit of 20 on a stat, having this many different races but only +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 to reflect the differences is insufficient.

Adding back in negative modifiers, different limits on min and max values, and allowing for higher than 20 would be a considerable improvement.



I dont take Lyxen's hardline stance on power gaming, or optimization. I do know, that the game does not require a 16 or higher in your primary stat for your class, and a Fighter with a starting Str of 15 will function within (actually above) the tolerances expected based on Wizards own encounter building rules.

There is nothing wrong with an optimized Elf, being a better Rogue, than an optimized Orc, or whatever.

What you don't understand is that PCs need a 16 in their main stat... It's in the math!!!

 

[Scribe]

What you don't understand is that PCs need a 16 in their main stat... It's in the math!!!

Beautifully, I know now that this is a fallacy.

 

[Minigiant]

One of the oddities of D&D is that it pushed races being basically "humans with hats" but then assumed the races would also only wear certain shirts.

D&D designed races like half orcs and orcs like barbaric humans then got surprised that people might play them like "humans" and pick unexpected classes, feats, magic, and fighting styles while wanting them to be competent. The fact that the concept of a functioning orc wizard shocked D&D designers in the 2010s still baffled me.

 

[Scribe]

One of the oddities of D&D is that it pushed races being basically "humans with hats" but then assumed the races would also only wear certain shirts.

D&D designed races like half orcs and orcs like barbaric humans then got surprised that people might play them like "humans" and pick unexpected classes, feats, magic, and fighting styles while wanting them to be competent. The fact that the concept of a functioning orc wizard shocked D&D designers in the 2010s still baffled me.

What's not functional?

 

[Minigiant]

What's not functional?

Almost none of the orc's or half orc's features benefit with a spellcaster who doesn't make melee attacks. So those characters would be far below the expectation even though the concept make sense in some classic or alternative settings.

 

[Scribe]

Almost none of the orc's or half orc's features benefit with a spellcaster who doesn't make melee attacks. So those characters would be far below the expectation even though the concept make sense in some classic or alternative settings.

Far below?

Yes, they designed Orcs to be a melee option, and to be a 'strong' race, while also being skilled at things we would associate with self sufficiency, or nature. I can accept that much, but just how much further below Dwarves are they as Wizards? Are they better Sorcerers than Kenku? How about Kobolds?

Are you suggesting that every race needs to be have a benefit for every type of class as well as not having racial attributes to provide any kind of differentiation?

 

[Minigiant]

Far below?

Yes, they designed Orcs to be a melee option, and to be a 'strong' race, while also being skilled at things we would associate with self sufficiency, or nature. I can accept that much, but just how much further below Dwarves are they as Wizards? Are they better Sorcerers than Kenku? How about Kobolds?

Are you suggesting that every race needs to be have a benefit for every type of class as well as not having racial attributes to provide any kind of differentiation?

I'm saying that a race shouldn't be soley and wholey focused around a hat. Both classes are solely focused on being a warrior as a character.
And not just a warrior, a melee warrior.
And not just a melee warrior, a strength based melee warrior.

Dwarves, Kenku, and kobolds have racial traits a spellcaster or archer could use.
Half orcs and Volo Orcs have almost one: bonus skill attached to culture that might not be in the setting.

And with the rule changes in 5e, STR isn't useful for spellcasters as spell attack use spellcasting score and there are no STR or CON casters in 5e.

The classes were designed as if no player would ever seriously want to run them as casters. And that happening in 2015 baffles me. No it was 2016. Even worse.

 

[Scribe]

The classes were designed as if no player would ever seriously want to run them as casters. And that happening in 2015 baffles me. No it was 2016. Even worse.

I just cannot agree, because the game is designed to not require any serious optimization at all.

Its literally in the math of the game. We dont need 16's, we dont need special rules, and we dont need magical items.

The basic math of the game, 5e, is perfectly supported with Standard Array, and no ASI at all.

The rest? Just makes it even easier.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I just cannot agree, because the game is designed to not require any serious optimization at all.

Its literally in the math of the game. We dont need 16's, we dont need special rules, and we dont need magical items.

The basic math of the game, 5e, is perfectly supported with Standard Array, and no ASI at all.

The rest? Just makes it even easier.

It certainly is somewhat ironic that 5e being 'easy mode' is a rather common complaint. How about try it without hyperoptimising the characters, like it likely was intended to be played?

 

[Scribe]

It certainly is somewhat ironic that 5e being 'easy mode' is a rather common complaint. How about try it without hyperoptimising the characters, like it likely was intended to be played?

100%

Someone can probably (I seriously dont spend time on such things in 5e) provide an optimized level 3 character, that is a walking god, against anything 'at its level' based on Wizards guidelines.

If I want to enjoy build options, keywords, and special rules, I go to the systems which support such activities, that we have had for decades. 5e doesnt require it in the slightest to be functional, or imo effective.