RPG Theory- The Limits of My Language are the Limits of My World

[Umbran]

Whether its your takeaway or not, its an easy out to write off an argument or approach someone doesn't like; just assign ulterior motives on it and smugly move on.

Yes, but doing so without evidence is weak sauce rhetoric that makes the discussion personal rather than about the topic at hand.

There is a reason why I am saying folks should look at their own reasons, rather than presume they know anyone else's.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yes, but doing so without evidence is weak sauce rhetoric that makes the discussion personal rather than about the topic at hand.

There is a reason why I am saying folks should look at their own reasons, rather than presume they know anyone else's.

I don't disagree, but--good luck with that.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'll add you to that Yora's Law:

"When people start breaking quoted posts into individual paragraphs and sentences to reply to each of them separately, it's no longer about adding to the discussion, but winning a fight."

Which so far I've not seen in this thread, which is something.

Eh. Don't think I can jump on that one; when I do that its because I think my points will lose clarity if lumped together, and that some of them are more relevant than others and I want to provide an easy way to tease them out.

 

[payn]

Eh. Don't think I can jump on that one; when I do that its because I think my points will lose clarity if lumped together, and that some of them are more relevant than others and I want to provide an easy way to tease them out.

Sometimes folks will ask you a handful of questions and its less messy to handle it in multi-quote. Though, I do see folks using it to needle the hell out of each others points. It just depends if its in that first dozen pages of a thread or the final 50.

 

[Yora]

Eh. Don't think I can jump on that one; when I do that its because I think my points will lose clarity if lumped together, and that some of them are more relevant than others and I want to provide an easy way to tease them out.

Not if you have two or three people have half a page of posts that each contain six to eight posts each.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Not if you have two or three people have half a page of posts that each contain six to eight posts each.

I'm not going to deny that trying to keep the arguments straight can, instead, confuse them if you let broken-out bits propagate too far--when I see a discussion I'm in is doing that I try and simplify--but I'm still going to argue that trying to respond to one big block eight paragraph post with another of the same is not better, but worse.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sometimes folks will ask you a handful of questions and its less messy to handle it in multi-quote. Though, I do see folks using it to needle the hell out of each others points. It just depends if its in that first dozen pages of a thread or the final 50.

Like most such things, it can be a tool or a weapon depending on how its applied.

 

[hawkeyefan]

So I think that there are always some pitfalls of getting caught up in the discussion and everyone may go further with it than intended from time to time. The itemized quotes and liking posts only of those who appear to be on our side and so on. Anyone can get caught up in some of that from time to time. I know I have in the past; I get stuck in the back and forth of it to the point where the context is totally absent from responses, and you'd have to trace the conversation back across pages to even know what's actually being discussed.

I've made an effort to do that less. I don't always manage, but I think I've gotten a lot better at it. I'm going to continue trying to get better at it. There's certainly room for improvement.

And I think maybe that's part of why I take part in these discussions about RPG theory and how games work and why, and all that. I've been playing for decades and until a few years ago, I hadn't really given more than surface level consideration about why I play RPGs and what I enjoy about them and how best to bring that about in my games. I've found conversation here to have been very helpful in examining that about myself and my games.

I think that's the point of any analysis. To see what's working correctly, and what's not, and how things may be improved. I've spent a lot more time considering my games and their processes and how those interact with what I and my fellow players enjoy. The result is that we're getting more out of our games.

So I tend to see analysis or critique as a tool that can help because that's what it's done for me. When I see people dismiss the importance of analysis or critique, my instinct is to push back on that. Largely because to actually dismiss analysis takes an effort. If someone isn't interested in analysis of whatever subject, they're likely not going to be involved in the conversation. They're either engaging with their game or book or movie at whatever level they enjoy and couldn't care less about analyzing that. That's perfectly fine. There are plenty of topics where that's my level of engagement and I don't seek anything further.

But I think it's something else to actively want to dismiss analysis because it's either all been said before or that it's empty posturing. To me, that's a take that is going to receive some push back, and deservedly so.

 

[payn]

So I think that there are always some pitfalls of getting caught up in the discussion and everyone may go further with it than intended from time to time. The itemized quotes and liking posts only of those who appear to be on our side and so on. Anyone can get caught up in some of that from time to time. I know I have in the past; I get stuck in the back and forth of it to the point where the context is totally absent from responses, and you'd have to trace the conversation back across pages to even know what's actually being discussed.

I've made an effort to do that less. I don't always manage, but I think I've gotten a lot better at it. I'm going to continue trying to get better at it. There's certainly room for improvement.

I've been guilty of this too. Once I see a couple of loggerheads with no indication they will stop, I've taken to tuning them out, but keep following along in case a new discussion blooms.

And I think maybe that's part of why I take part in these discussions about RPG theory and how games work and why, and all that. I've been playing for decades and until a few years ago, I hadn't really given more than surface level consideration about why I play RPGs and what I enjoy about them and how best to bring that about in my games. I've found conversation here to have been very helpful in examining that about myself and my games.

I think that's the point of any analysis. To see what's working correctly, and what's not, and how things may be improved. I've spent a lot more time considering my games and their processes and how those interact with what I and my fellow players enjoy. The result is that we're getting more out of our games.

Word.

So I tend to see analysis or critique as a tool that can help because that's what it's done for me. When I see people dismiss the importance of analysis or critique, my instinct is to push back on that. Largely because to actually dismiss analysis takes an effort. If someone isn't interested in analysis of whatever subject, they're likely not going to be involved in the conversation. They're either engaging with their game or book or movie at whatever level they enjoy and couldn't care less about analyzing that. That's perfectly fine. There are plenty of topics where that's my level of engagement and I don't seek anything further.

But I think it's something else to actively want to dismiss analysis because it's either all been said before or that it's empty posturing. To me, that's a take that is going to receive some push back, and deservedly so.

There is also the cynical take of an old timer that has been on boards discussing these things forever. Folks can forget that it could be somebody's first rodeo. I try not to be too flippant when a dead horse gets dropped at our feet, yet again. I try but don't always succeed but I think I'm getting better.

 

[Thomas Shey]

There is also the cynical take of an old timer that has been on boards discussing these things forever. Folks can forget that it could be somebody's first rodeo. I try not to be too flippant when a dead horse gets dropped at our feet, yet again. I try but don't always succeed but I think I'm getting better.

As I noted, I can sometimes come from this posture, but I think its more of a flaw on my part (and the fact I've gotten old and mildly depressed) and don't actually view it as a virtue on my part.