How important is "realism"?

[Garthanos]

"Dissociated Mechanics": a consistently crap argument used against 4e due to one of the worst articles by the Alexandrian, often with unironic amounts special pleading invovled, including by the Alexandrian.

Solid definition works for me.

 

[Bill Zebub]

In game world logic can be because of magical nexus that allow his rituals to work better... need not be explicit or known to anyone else either. Think of it as a mystery. I like a bit of mystery involved AND characters are not omniscient.

Yes, that’s a corollary of my subsequent paragraph, that you omitted. Maybe I chose a bad example, but I think any veteran gamer knows that RPGs can be rife with instances where NPCs make blindingly poor decisions simply because that’s what’s needed to move the plot along. And you can only handwave it away so many times telling yourself that there must be a deeper, unknown reason.

 

[Baron Opal II]

How important is it that your games reflect reality?

There needs to be sufficient "reality" that I can use my experiences to pilot my character. While the fantasitical elements can certainly "change the rules", I need to be able to figure out odds based on the setting and what my character can reasonably accomplish. If I'm chasing a thief across the rooftops during a storm, I would expect that the thief is very agile and that I would need to be so as well. If I met this person before and know them to be clumsy as a drunk hippo, then that should be a clue that something isn't right; they may have magic, I'm chasing a shapeshifter, or whatever. But, the situation requires a certain expected and explicable quality based on what we can observe around us.

 

[Garthanos]

Yes, that’s a corollary of my subsequent paragraph, that you omitted. Maybe I chose a bad example, but I think any veteran gamer knows that RPGs can be rife with instances where NPCs make blindingly poor decisions simply because that’s what’s needed to move the plot along. And you can only handwave it away so many times telling yourself that there must be a deeper, unknown reason.

The Ta'Veren factor mentioned in the Wheel of Time books. For instance normal villager being inspired to defend themselves against really nasty enemies by the strange hero who seems able to manipulate the story itself (for them its history) and it working ridiculously well is even called out in the books.

 

[Garthanos]

Robert Jordan was a DM

 

[Mallus]

Solid definition works for me.

i’m partial to “dissociated mechanics are any abstraction you don’t personally like”.

 

[Tom B1]

"Dissociated Mechanics": a consistently crap argument used against 4e due to one of the worst articles by the Alexandrian, often with unironic amounts special pleading invovled, including by the Alexandrian.

Ultimately, I've played D&D since the days where the DMG hadn't come out yet. I've never found such a boring, flavourless version than 4E. Everyone had at wills, per encounter, and per day powers and most of the modules boiled down to grinding through encounters as tactical puzzles. The group I played with had played through a whole gamut of different iterations of D&D, of more other games than I can count, and we waded through a full 20 levels in Eberron in 3.5. And 5E now too. We all felt that though 4E was easier for the GM, it was just not engaging like the other versions have been.

And that is surely an opinion, just the same as yours about the notion of a dissociated mechanic. And as that boils down to an opinion, it isn't something worth arguing about.

 

[Tom B1]

Robert Jordan was a DM

Probably explains why his books took so long to come out

 

[Aldarc]

Ultimately, I've played D&D since the days where the DMG hadn't come out yet. I've never found such a boring, flavourless version than 4E. Everyone had at wills, per encounter, and per day powers and most of the modules boiled down to grinding through encounters as tactical puzzles. The group I played with had played through a whole gamut of different iterations of D&D, of more other games than I can count, and we waded through a full 20 levels in Eberron in 3.5. And 5E now too. We all felt that though 4E was easier for the GM, it was just not engaging like the other versions have been.

And that is surely an opinion, just the same as yours about the notion of a dissociated mechanic. And as that boils down to an opinion, it isn't something worth arguing about.

Go Edition War somewhere else.

 

[Garthanos]

i’m partially to “dissociated mechanics are any abstraction you don’t personally like”.

That works too very focused really emphasizing the "special pleading" element mentioned earlier.