D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[clearstream]

If we accept that the math doesnt require it, and nobody had even tried to demonstrate that it does which I've seen, then yes, its a belief, or more likely, a simple desire.

Power gaming would not simply be 'effective'. Getting into conversations around defining subjective terms leads to long threads so I'll ask you.

What is 'power gaming'?

It's still not clear to me what is included and excluded by 'require'. What would it take for the math to require it? What is an example of something required?

 

[FrozenNorth]

I am not sure what this anecdote about you being banned for being rude to the presenters was meant to convey.

“When someone shows you what they are like, believe them.”

Maya Angelou

 

[Maxperson]

I've done the math, care to demonstrate this 20% increase?

Let's say you are doing d8+2 damage with a 14 strength. Your average damage on a hit will be 6.5 damage. With a 16 strength it will be 7.5. that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 15% more damage. That's increased overall, though, because you are hitting 5% more often, so 20-25% is right. At the end of the day, though, it's still 1 point a hit and just a couple points a fight, which is pretty irrelevant.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Um, the same reason we exchange our normal sword for a +1 magic sword, when given the chance?

Or are you claiming that you would leave the sword behind, for roleplaying reasons?

If my character came from an order of clerics that wielded flails, and I was wielding a flail that bore my order’s insignia, absolutely! This might spur my character to approach an enchanter to enchant my flail eventually.

 

[Scribe]

It's still not clear to me what is included and excluded by 'require'. What would it take for the math to require it? What is an example of something required?

What is the baseline for success?

To bring it to a measurable reference point. If I am fighting a boss with 10,000,000 HP, and I have 5 minutes to kill it before it hits Enrage and wipes the raid.

10 Million
300 Seconds

33333 DPS for the Raid.

Assumption: 3 Tanks, and 5 Healers = 17 Damage Dealers.

1960 DPS Average per Damage Dealer (basic assumption, because the Tanks also do damage.)

So in a 25 person raid, that is what is 'required' for a pass/fail.

D&D doesnt have this. The DM can arbitrarily increase or decrease the difficulty, they can increase or decrease the magic items, and you as players can in many cases simply AVOID that boss fight through other means.

So when I say its not required that you start with a 16, thats factual. It is not mechanically, mathematically required to start with a 16.

Its a personal desire.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

An argument vould me made that 13 is required for multiclassing or taking certain feats that could be essential to mechanically reflect a character concept. However I am not sure there are requirements of a16 based on a stringent defintion of required.

Edit: a Monkadin concept would require 4 13s in 4 specific stats so it could be unavailable to certain races. It's niche, but it answers the riddle.

Edit2: an Aasimar wouldn't qualify with standard array and fixed ASIs in Cha and Int to reach 13 in all 4 other attributes. Yipee : the game requires floating ASIs for my Paladin 1 / Monk 1 concept of an aasimar fighting for the God of Poverty that forbids him to own anything even clothes and certainly not bourgeois comfort items like a sword or an armor to exist.

The lack of naked holy warriors of celestial descent in 5e imagery is at last explained by theorycrafting.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Right, I thought you were saying 20% increase to hit. I accept that at low level a +1 to damage is meaningful.

I hate to keep flogging this horse, but it's not the +1 damage, it's multiplicative damage of the increased chance to hit times the increased damage.

It's also not restricted to low level. At higher levels the effect lessens for low AC targets, but PCs also face higher AC targets.

 

[Bill Zebub]

It's still not clear to me what is included and excluded by 'require'. What would it take for the math to require it? What is an example of something required?

It's the people in favor of fixed ASIs who keep using words like "required" and "effective" and "viable", I'm supposing in order to make the opposing position sound untenable.

 

[Scribe]

I hate to keep flogging this horse, but it's not the +1 damage, it's multiplicative damage of the increased chance to hit times the increased damage.

It's also not restricted to low level. At higher levels the effect lessens for low AC targets, but PCs also face higher AC targets.

I hear you. Its for the mathematical benefit. You feel that those values outweigh anything else. Thats 100% fine.

It's the people in favor of fixed ASIs who keep using words like "required" and "effective" and "viable", I'm supposing in order to make the opposing position sound untenable.

Propose different language then, because its not a need. Call it whatever you want.

 

[Bill Zebub]

So when I say its not required that you start with a 16, thats factual. It is not mechanically, mathematically required to start with a 16.

Who are you refuting when you say that? Or is that a straw man? (Maybe somebody somewhere posted that it's 'required'. I certainly haven't read any post.)

Its a personal desire.

Yup, it is.

Likewise, keeping the tradition and expressing "elvishness" through a +2 Dex is a desire. It is not required.

I'm glad we got that out of the way.