D&D 5E Tasha's really improved and changed the feel of Rangers

[Bolares]

The Echo Knight and Soulknife would like a word.

Seriously there are a lot of niche but cool options in 5e. They just make them subclasses. And there's already in practice one martial ranger in the Scout. There should possibly one for the fighter as well.

Both of those can be easily done by subclass. A martial ranger would need to be it's own class, and that's the kind of niche thing (for a class) that WotC seems to not be willing to make.

About the scout, it's not really a martial ranger, it's a wilderness rogue. They are similar, but not really the same thing.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What do you count as spells in 4e?

lol powers that are magical?

Twin Strike isn’t magical.

I'm playing a Ranger with all of Tasha's material, and TBH, while it's early days, I haven't seen such a quantum leap for the class. I feel like I'm a solid member of the party, but hardly overpowered.

It is being overstated. Favored Foe is a fairly weak use of your concentration until pretty late game, more spells raise versatility more than power unless you’re gaining access to more powerful spells, and the Ranger isn’t leaving anyone in the dust in general.

 

[Bolares]

lol powers that are magical?

Twin Strike isn’t magical.

After seeing this over and over I believe I was not clear enough. I wasn't disputing flavor differences between martial and arcane powers in 4e. I was saying that I believe it's hard to gauge how to do a martial ranger by using 4e because essentially every power, magical or not, works on the same basis, so either everyone is mechanically magical or no one is.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

After seeing this over and over I believe I was not clear enough. I wasn't disputing flavor differences between martial and arcane powers in 4e. I was saying that I believe it's hard to gauge how to do a martial ranger by using 4e because essentially every power, magical or not, works on the same basis, so either everyone is mechanically magical or no one is.

No, you were clear. Just, also incorrect.

It’s easy to use the 4e Ranger as an example, because it’s powers are very clearly not magical, and thus not spells. Well, before Essentials gave it magical utility powers.

Also, supernatural =\= magical, much less spell.

Martial powers aren’t spells, Arcane, Divine, and Primal, powers (mostly) are.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

The term "lipstick on a pig" is something that WOTC has forgotten.

Many moons ago, the Ranger was a subclass of Fighter. The simplest and most elegant solution to the woes of the Ranger would be to subsume that class back into Fighter, and then create 2 or 3 new subclasses of Fighter.

 

[Bolares]

No, you were clear. Just, also incorrect.

It’s easy to use the 4e Ranger as an example, because it’s powers are very clearly not magical, and thus not spells. Well, before Essentials gave it magical utility powers.

Also, supernatural =\= magical, much less spell.

Martial powers aren’t spells, Arcane, Divine, and Primal, powers (mostly) are.

What would you mechanically extract from the 4e ranger then?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It’s mechanically sound, and it’s thematically a non-caster ranger. I don’t see the issue.

I think he means that the only difference between spell and power in 4e is a name and a bit of flavour text.
So if you change all exclusive ranger spells to powers and saying you can use a spell slot to power them is mechanically the same as letting rangers cast a spell.
It carries different flavour though and you need to replicate the same text, if a ranger power does basically the same as a ranger spell.

Actually that would not be a bad Idea to add a "martial school of magic" to the spell list and then allowing the ranger to exclusively use them instead of real magic. Of course you now have to ask, why can the ranger only do x a few times per day? But that was no problem in 4e so this is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[ECMO3]

It is being overstated. Favored Foe is a fairly weak use of your concentration until pretty late game, more spells raise versatility more than power unless you’re gaining access to more powerful spells, and the Ranger isn’t leaving anyone in the dust in general.

I agree on favored foe except when you consider it uses no spell slots and takes no action to initiate. If you are not already concentrating the opportunity cost for using it is very low. Even if you plan on casting a concentration spell on the very next turn, it is a flat and largely free damage boost on that turn.

 

[ECMO3]

Those features are mutually exclusive. That said, more things like them in place of spells would be something I would like to see (though personally I would prefer fewer of them to be X times/day, which to me feels very spell-like.)

Vanish and Hide in Plain Sight are not exclusive and both are at will with no per day limits. I think you are confusing Vanish with Nature's veil. Nature's Veil and Hide in Plain Sight are exclusive, you choose one or the other and Nature's Veil is PB per day.

All Rangers get Vanish though and with can hide as a bonus action at will (in addition to not being tracked). This is true regardless of what other class choices they make.

 

[Undrave]

Two Weapon, Archery, and Throwing went to Ranger.

Two Weapons was later added back to the Fighter in Martial Power, with the Tempest Technique class feature.

Tempest Technique
When you wield two melee weapons, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with weapons that have the off-hand property.
You gain Two-Weapon Defense as a bonus feat, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites.
When wearing light armor or chainmail, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with melee and close weapon attacks when you are wielding two weapons. This bonus increases to +2 with weapons that have the off-hand property.

They also added what is essentially a Martial Barbarian.

Battlerager Vigor
Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved).
When you gain temporary hit points by hitting with an attack that has the invigorating keyword, those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary hit points you already have.
When wearing light armor or chainmail, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with melee and close weapon attacks whenever you have temporary hit points. This bonus increases to +2 if you’re wielding an axe, a hammer, a mace, or a pick.

And, of course, for those who don't know

Invigorating: If you are trained in the Endurance skill, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier when you hit with a power that has this keyword. No invigorating power grants temporary hit points more than once per turn, even if you hit more than once with the power or use more than one power with the invigorating keyword in a round.

Then they gave the Fighter an Invigorating At-Will (it's basically a basic attack with the keyword) and a copy of Twin Strike called Dual Strike. They added some powers that require two weapons, but also powers with storm themed names that grants you bonus damage based on your Dexterity modifier.

Unfortunately, the design teamand many fans were wizard biased

Augh... why don't Wizard fans just come right out and say it "We think Wizards should be more powerful than other class" then people could be warned and avoid Wizards if they care about balance...

3rd edition used to specify if an effect was a spell, spell like ability, supernatural or natural, and had rules for each. 5e makes no such distinction, it leaves it up to the player to specify.

"Rulings not rules"