D&D 5E Tasha's really improved and changed the feel of Rangers

[Minigiant]

The term "lipstick on a pig" is something that WOTC has forgotten.

Many moons ago, the Ranger was a subclass of Fighter. The simplest and most elegant solution to the woes of the Ranger would be to subsume that class back into Fighter, and then create 2 or 3 new subclasses of Fighter.

Doesn't work because the Ranger was a Fighter Plus.

D&D has never truly determined was a Fighter exclusive class feature is in order to withhold it from the Ranger, Paladin, and Barbarian. 5e tried but Action Surge and Second Wind are fake fighter class features.

No one can state what a Fighter does better than a Ranger that is significant enough to not make the Fighter second fiddle to a Ranger.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What would you mechanically extract from the 4e ranger then?

So, looking at Ranger powers, starting with attack powers, some of this could be abilities, some would better fit a new fighting style or other more passive ability.

Warning Shot (at-will): You shoot a target, and mark a spot either in or adjacent to their space, and if a creature moves into that space you can shoot them as an immediate action. I'd probably translate this as an ability to mark a target, and if a creature moves out of that space or out of a 5ft radius around it, you can make an opportunity attack against them.

Ferocious Insight: (encounter)Your beast companion attacks, and you and thecompanion can move with the target if they move.

fox's Cunning (encounter): triggers on an enemy attacking you. you shift and then attack the target with a bonus to the attaack.

Lots of powers give movement as part of the action, slow the target, etfc.

Hurling Charge lets you throw a weapon and then charge, which could be translated as a bonus to damage and speed when you make a ranged and a melee attack with one action.

Then utility powers features stuff like Archer's Stairway, which helps your allies climb, and Terrain Advantage, which gives fyou a defense buff while in difficult terrain.

I agree on favored foe except when you consider it uses no spell slots and takes no action to initiate. If you are not already concentrating the opportunity cost for using it is very low. Even if you plan on casting a concentration spell on the very next turn, it is a flat and largely free damage boost on that turn.

On the other hand, with all the extra spells the Ranger can have now, is Hunter’s Mark actually a big cost, now?

Because at least at d4, Favored Foe has to be allowed to stack on top of itself round by round to even come close to Hunter’s Mark. Without that interpretation, I don’t know if it ever catches up. The difference is big enough that if you’re after damage, you get more damage and more utility by learning HM and keeping Favored Enemy, IMO.

I’d only ever choose FF if I didn’t know my DM, to reduce the DM dependence of the class.

 

[Undrave]

5e tried but Action Surge and Second Wind are fake fighter class features.

What do you mean?

 

[Minigiant]

What do you mean?

I mean nothing about Action Surge, Second Wind, or Indomitable feel like fighter exclusive. They were standard stuff PCs of older editions that multiple classes had.

Action Surge and Second Surge feel like class features that we gave to fighter because we couldn't agree on of better fighter class features that were simple and doesn't specialize fighters. There is no real justification why it wouldn't make sense for rangers to get Second Wind or Action Surge.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

Doesn't work because the Ranger was a Fighter Plus.

D&D has never truly determined was a Fighter exclusive class feature is in order to withhold it from the Ranger, Paladin, and Barbarian. 5e tried but Action Surge and Second Wind are fake fighter class features.

No one can state what a Fighter does better than a Ranger that is significant enough to not make the Fighter second fiddle to a Ranger.

I see where you are going with this.
That speaks to a larger problem that WOTC has with power creep.
By trying to sell more product, they have created classes that are more powerful than the Fighter.
Yet, WOTC will never do a proper rebalance that might actually include nerfing existing classes, because that sells less product.

Always more more more, as opposed to stay the same there, but less here.
If WOTC came out and said "Fighters lose Action Surge, and Paladin's don't gain a 2nd attack until 11th level", the customer base would lose their mind.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

Doesn't work because the Ranger was a Fighter Plus.

D&D has never truly determined was a Fighter exclusive class feature is in order to withhold it from the Ranger, Paladin, and Barbarian. 5e tried but Action Surge and Second Wind are fake fighter class features.

No one can state what a Fighter does better than a Ranger that is significant enough to not make the Fighter second fiddle to a Ranger.

Also, by one person's count, there are 132 subclasses now available.
If a proper rebalance was done, I am betting half of those could be removed with nary a peep from the vast majority of the customer base. That would then create some breathing space to alter the remaining sub-classes into ones that are more balanced against one another, perhaps even leading to Ranger being subsumed, IF the remaining Fighter classes could be made into something of comparable, but equal strength. But that means that base classes would have to be nerfed.

This would truly be 5.5e.

 

[Undrave]

I mean nothing about Action Surge, Second Wind, or Indomitable feel like fighter exclusive. They were standard stuff PCs of older editions that multiple classes had.

Action Surge and Second Surge feel like class features that we gave to fighter because we couldn't agree on of better fighter class features that were simple and doesn't specialize fighters. There is no real justification why it wouldn't make sense for rangers to get Second Wind or Action Surge.

I see! I also agree.

We had a good Fighter feature in 4e, it was their ability to mark everyone they attacked and punish them for attacking somebody else...

I feel like some of the Battlemaster maneuvers should have been standard stuff the Fighter can do without expending superiority dice (and without the extra damage). Goading Attack in particular feels very much like it would be a solid signature ability.

 

[Bolares]

I feel like some of the Battlemaster maneuvers should have been standard stuff the Fighter

Manuevers should be at least basic fighter features, if not open for any martial class (I guess they are through feats, but still)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I see where you are going with this.
That speaks to a larger problem that WOTC has with power creep.
By trying to sell more product, they have created classes that are more powerful than the Fighter.
Yet, WOTC will never do a proper rebalance that might actually include nerfing existing classes, because that sells less product.

Always more more more, as opposed to stay the same there, but less here.
If WOTC came out and said "Fighters lose Action Surge, and Paladin's don't gain a 2nd attack until 11th level", the customer base would lose their mind.

Nothing published since the PHB has surpassed the PHB power level.

 

[Bolares]

Nothing published since the PHB has surpassed the PHB power level.

Maybe the Hexblade.